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Frame Locks

Discussion in 'Wheels / Suspension / Tires / Brakes' started by jamesA, Jul 28, 2004.

  1. jamesA

    jamesA Well known pissed off telephone guy VIP

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  2. asmallsol

    asmallsol Super Moderator

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    about as useful as a Tornado MAD HP JDM yo! intake fan. Bracing random shit in your car will only add weight. There is no way something like that will do everything that it claims.
     
  3. YouKnowWhoIBee

    YouKnowWhoIBee my avatar is better.

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    Doubt they work to well. Did you see the guy. He looked "amped" about his frame bracing that i bet he didnt even install himself. He got like pep boys to do it. But hey try it out and tell us if you feel the rush of cornering on a dime at 90 mph... :D
     
  4. BlackFrog

    BlackFrog Neighborhood Lush

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    I dont see how that can do what they clain it does. I read alot of "praises" about it on CSi, and they all seemed like those cheesy praises that someone for the company wrote, like infomercials and shit. id try it if it was free, but for $240 or whatever they are planning on selling it for, seems like a rip and a hoax.

    -Chris
     
  5. asmallsol

    asmallsol Super Moderator

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    there was a thread started like 4 days ago on HT about these in the ITR forum. The thread has grown to 4 pages, and even the guy who made these started to defend them.

    Basicly, his entire argument doesn't make sence, and to prove how it works, he only restates what it claims to do.

    Snake Oil salesman.
     
  6. BlackFrog

    BlackFrog Neighborhood Lush

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    yeah, nothing i have read anywhere actually explains HOW it works, or what it actually does that makes your car supposidly handle so much better.

    And if they cant tell you how or why, its usually cuz it doesnt do anything.
     
  7. UDT

    UDT Senior Member

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  8. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    It actually makes complete sense to me... but I don't want to type out a bunch of crap here right now. No matter what, it'll stiffen up the front end of the chassis a good bit (and stiffer is better), but whether or not it makes all the improvements they claim- who knows.
     
  9. asmallsol

    asmallsol Super Moderator

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    Alright, here is how I see them, there design and their function.

    basicly what it is trying to do is to keep the 2 frame rails parallel to each other without deflection between the two, to keep the suspension geomotry the same.

    However, What is wrong with the raditor core support, and the bumper core support and how they are mounted? Wouldn't that be enough. Also, on many actual road racing honda, the bumper isn't even kept. It is using the bumper to tie the 2 frame rails together. But is the bracing even nessary? To me, it seams like BS. Plus I love how his defence (the one selling these, and signed up on HT to defend them) was, well, were going to have an article in SCC Mag, and then all of you guys are going to wish you had bought these, (not exact words, but pretty much same extent).

    Slick fifty, Tornado, E-superchargers, monkey bars, and a bunch of other shitty products that don't do shit have been in magazines. Magazines don't tell me shit about the product
     
  10. swanny

    swanny Senior Member

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    I've been a frame tech for 2 years and they look worthless.
     
  11. YouKnowWhoIBee

    YouKnowWhoIBee my avatar is better.

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    Actually pick up the new honda tuning and they have an article on it this month and they say they are well worth it. They did an install on a 99 or 2000 si. Here is a link to the ad. But you have to buy the mag or wait till they post it next month. http://hondatuningmagazine.com/toc/ i didnt htink they worked till i read the article.
     
  12. asmallsol

    asmallsol Super Moderator

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    wow a magazine said that they worked. Sweet, I am going to buy them, just like Monkey bars, Tornado's, and e-chargers.
     
  13. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    umm, what if you cut out the entire place its suposed to mount to to fit an intercooler? :p
     
  14. K2e2vin

    K2e2vin Senior Member

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    holdon dont many advertisers pay to have their products displayed in a magazine? i remember reading about how a product sucked and stuff, and then a few pages later was a advertisment for that same product. i forgot which magazine this was in or what it was but i do remember something like that.
     
  15. jeffsciv23

    jeffsciv23 Senior Member

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    i was wondering if these thing would do what they say they do when i was reading the honda tuning article. i defanitley not pay $245 for those little things but i think i might try the basic idea and weld a small metal strip where they put the frame locks to see if i feel a differance. if i don't feel a differance at least i didn't pay all that money.
     
  16. Solid_Ride

    Solid_Ride Junior Member

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    Below is an explanation of how the Frame Locks work. Sorry for the late response. We just found out about the posting.

    HOW DO THE FRAME LOCKS IMPROVE HANDLING
    Frame Locks quickens the steering response by increasing the lateral (side) stiffness of the front frame. Visualize a car going into a sharp turn. As this occurs, the road surface exerts a lateral load to your front tires at the tire patch. In an extreme turn your tires will want to scrub out to the side. The lateral load of the tires will translate a lateral load to the suspension which in turns translates a lateral load to the front frame. The front frame of the car will flex and the time it takes to flex will result in a lagged response of the steering. Although the time it takes to flex may not seem to be significant. In actuality it is. For example at 40 mph, a vehicle is traveling at 58 feet/second. The simple calculations are as follows: [40 miles/hr x 5280 ft/mile] / [60 minutes/hour x 60 seconds/minute]) = 58 ft/sec. If stiffening the front frame results in a reduction of flex time of even 1/10th of a second, that translates to 5.8 ft of vehicle travel which is significant.

    The Civic is great car and the rigidity of its chassis is above par for it’s price class. However, it was not designed by the OEM to be a high performance car. That’s why there is a huge after market industry to cater to driving enthusiasts wanting more out of their Civics.

    The front lateral stiffness of the Civic has a lot of opportunity for improvement. It is by far the “weakest link in the chain” for chassis design. The current architecture relies on the lower radiator support to transfer the lateral load from the left front rail to the right front rail. Since the lower radiator support is at a lower elevation than the front rails, the load path takes a zig zag and that is a very inefficient structural design for high performance expectations. A close look at the lower radiator support will also indicate that the fore aft section thickness is quite narrow. Because of this, it does not yield that much stiffness when loaded laterally for the rails. Ideally the way to efficiently transfer the lateral load of the right rail to the left rail is to do this on the same plane. It just so happens that the bumper beam is at the same plane. Unfortunately, the attachment stiffness to the frame rails is very weak. This is designed in this manner to reduce cost and ease the assembly to assure fit and finish. High performance cars have stiffer attachments in this area.

    Basically, the Frame Locks unifies the entire front chassis by effectively tying the front rails together. Professional race cars also have stiff chassis and they do so for this very reason. It’s not always about the suspension. A high performance car also needs a stiff chassis to make the suspension work effectively.

    =====================================

    Let me say that we've had a number of people evaluate our product including moderators at another club (Clubsi) and the reviews have been very postive. In fact we are having the founder of Clubsi do an evaluation as well. We are totally open to people trying it out and posting their reviews. Although I grant you that people are always suspicious of testimonials. All I can say is that you can check out their testimonials in the Skid Pad forum and you can confirm that they have been long term members. They are not newbie plants.

    See: http://forums.clubsi.com/showflat.php?Cat=...sb=5&o=&fpart=1. In a few more days, there will be more postings from other members.


    In addition, I understand that magazines can over state products a little. But our product did make the front cover in Honda Tunining magazine. If our product was a hoax. The magazine's credibility will be in the trash can. People would be fired. It's ppossible, but unlikely. Unless you believe in conspiracy theories. We are going to try to get Grass Roots to evaluate our product as well. I also wlecome anyone on this forum to try out our product as well and report back on this forum.

    In the end, there will be doubt as to the validity of our product. But in time when more people have them, I predict that it will be accepted. We recoginize that we are not a big brand name company and we have not earned credibility yet. That is why we do offer it at a guarantee.


    Below is an excerpt of what was printed in Honda Tuning magazine:

    "With the Frame Locks dialed in we took the cars out for a romp on some city streets, not really sure if we would feel anything significant. Well, it was like night and day. In fact rarely do we encounter an aftermarket handling product that delivers what it claims so immediately. The Frame Locks affected the cars right off the bat, regardless of speed or road setting.

    Primarily the Civics felt abundantly more solid over all conditions. We found that especially on roundabout freeway onramps the vehicles were undaunted by lateral acceleration, and mid-corner braking and throttle lift-off did little to un-plant them either. Even over bumpy roads and train tracks the cars handled better. The newfound solidness translated to a much smoother ride and improved steering feel.

    The owners of our test Civics were equally pleased. In fact we asked Dinh Ly for his impressions and he gushed, “I took [the Civic] out on a familiar mountainous road where I know all the twists, bumps, and potholes by heart. I couldn't believe the improvement; it was like a different car! Every turn was smooth and solid. The bumpy parts definitely felt less bumpy too. I took a high-speed turn and felt no [frame] twisting whatsoever. Some of the dips in the road were severe, but with the Frame Locks installed the car felt great.”

    ==============================================

    Thanks for your time in reading this.

    Korbach Performance
     
  17. Solid_Ride

    Solid_Ride Junior Member

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    I must say that the statement above is not true. Our left Frame Lock weighs in at 13 ounces and the right one weighs the same. Each brace is about 7" and the total crumple zone of the front end of the car is about 48". The fore aft stiffness of the front rails and the engine cradle is many more magnitudes greater than the 26 ounces of bracing. Our product is primarily designed to increase front lateral stiffness.

    You can see what the Frame Locks look like on korbachperfromance.com. It is an open section structure designed to buckle in a frontal impact.

    Korbach Performance
     
  18. jamesA

    jamesA Well known pissed off telephone guy VIP

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    Ok so now that you've restated what it's supposed to do, would you mind showing some proof? videos? skippad tests? AutoX times that have improved in anyway after these were put on?

    That's what will convince me. Not more sales propaganda and testimonials from people I've never met and don't know if they've been paid or not.
     
  19. Solid_Ride

    Solid_Ride Junior Member

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    That is fair enough. We will be working on getting those numbers and we apologize that we did not have those before our release. Of course if it's a total hoax, we could be making the numbers up. We think the only way people would ever believe they worked is to have a friend that has actually tried it.

    We are sorry that people believe that this is a hoax of some kind. But you have every right to be skeptical. If you know anyone credible on this forum that wants to try them out, let us know. We are open to an arangement. We'd like to go with a moderator or someone very recognizeable. And by all means email us on info@korbachperformance.com. We'd like to answer any questions live by setting up a phone call. We think you will sense that we are very sincere in our product.

    Thanks

    Korbach Performance
     
  20. dood

    dood Junior Member

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    if you have a 88-91 honda crx version ill try it out,im also spaceman at honda-tech.com
     
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