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From B16 To Ls/vtec

Discussion in 'Engine Building' started by rsaeini, May 26, 2003.

  1. rsaeini

    rsaeini Senior Member

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    ok folks, for the past month or so i've been throwing around the idea of a hybrid motor and i have come to the decision that the LS/Vtec is one mean SOB if built right. I wanted to go CRVtec but too many people are doing it now and it seems like i would be doing it cuz it's the latest trend. Also, i decided against the CRVtec cuz it cost a bit more to build than a LSVtec.
    So now to my question. I have a 95 Civic coupe with a B16A2 that i swapped in about 2 months ago. I am planning to build the LSVtec with some of my existing hardware. I am planning on using the head off of my B16, it's already equipped with a set of ITR cams so it think it'll be good enough for now. I've been looking for a B18B block for about a week now and I've gotten a few good leads so far. I am going to use the oil and water pump from the B16 and I already have a tranny so i'm in pretty good condition there. I want to use the B16 pistons with the LS rods(shotpeened ofcourse) in the build up. I am planning on using ARP everything just to give myself that ease of mind.
    When I pick up the block i am going to have it resleeved and cleaned up. I might even invest in a block guard, not sure about this option yet. And ofcourse i will need to run the oil lines.
    All I would need at this point would be a LS block and LS rods, right? Which crank is best to use? i am guessing i will be using a LS oil pan, right?
    Is there any steps i overlooked? Am I missing any parts for the build up? Do you think i have the right mixture of parts?
    On a side note, what kind of compression numbers do you think i will be running with the LS rods and the B16A2 pistons?
    Should I use standard size pistons or should I have the machine shop overbore the sleeves "XX"mm to be able to use oversived pistons? if so, how does that affect the displacement of the motor?
    When I am having the block resleeved, is there a specific amount they should take off or how does that work cuz that is an area I know little about.
    I'm probably going to start this project as soon as I find a good candidate block.

    Thank you all in advance for reading this post and especially to those who respond. :worthy:
     
  2. Tre

    Tre Member

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    i just picked up an ls block too. I am going to build an ls/vtec

    - your going to need a block guard for sure since you are upping your compression with teh pr3 pistons
    - what im going to do is shotpeen the rods, hone the walls and get pr3's (new rings)
    - arp ROD bolts and HEAD bolts
    - blockguard
    - vtec oil pump, timing belt, water pump
    - balanace the crankshaft, with rods and pistons
    - get the oil line kit (PAUL VANG is selling one with race dowel pins - no drilling required on honda-tech)
    - b18a/b head gasket
    - b16a complete swap so i can use the head and all the other parts to use on my crx


    i might be missing something.
     
  3. liquid00meth

    liquid00meth Senior Member

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    well, I don't really reccomend trashing your b16 to build an ls/vtec, but it's your car - not mine. You didn't consider going full n/a with your b16? or maybe b16/t or SC?


    As a quick note, if you resleeve I wouldn't worry too much about a blockguard. And if you want a blockguard done right, talk to golden eagle. All you have to do is specify the piston size you'll be using and they take care of the rest.
     
  4. noobvang

    noobvang Senior Member

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    Hey, this was the route that I was thinking myself. Can you guys post the $$$ it took or gonna take you guys on this project to give a basic idea. This would be great.
     
  5. pills_PMD

    pills_PMD Super Moderator

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    i just finished going from a b16 to an lsvtec

    http://www.hondaswap.com/~pills/lsvtec.html

    i think you should call cory at gearhead for all your lsvtec needs
    727-733-8590
    Cory built many 12 second lsvtec setups that have been mainly OEM honda parts... his knowledge was very helpful for mine.

    i got my oil feed line and all my ARP rod bolts/head studs from him.

    you don't need to use the blockguard, it'll just make your engine run hotter... not necessary as i dont see you taking this much past 8200-8500 because the ITR cams will stop making power up there.

    i invested in .25mm over pr3 pistons with new rings and got it bored slightly. I reused the LS rods, but I couldn't find a place to shotpeen the rods, so i didn't bother doing it, i used arp rod bolts though.


    if you use the b16 water and oil pumps, get a gst timing belt.
    you can use either oilpan, but get a new gasket just in case. OEM LS headgasket ....
     
  6. rsaeini

    rsaeini Senior Member

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    i did consider building the B16 as a N/A setup but i didn't see it making that much power. my original idea with the B16 was the following setup:
    -ITR or skunk2 intake manifold($250)
    -Erick's racing 68-66mm TB($325)
    -upgraded fuel rail and fpr($200)
    -cam gears($150)
    -VAFC($300)
    -ITR cams and valvetrain($300 cuz i already have the cams)

    TOTAL = $1525

    with that much money spent this setup should make about 160-165hp at the wheels.

    i wanted more power than that. i believe a well built LSVtec can easily out match that much power and still have a lot more room to improve. i've seen well built LSVtec's with over 200whp. that is the number i'm shooting for, the big 2-0-0. check out some of these dyno runs. i threw around the idea of F/I but i am an all motor guy, always have been. i don't believe in power adders. plus, building the LSVtec is a true test to my knowledge of the Honda engine, i'm using this as my first step towards becoming an engine builder.

    But in the end it came down to how much green you got in your wallet and with what i already have(B16), it's only going to cost me a few hundred dollars to get the project done cuz i just about got everything except the block, rods, gaskets, bolts and nuts, and a new timing belt.

    i just wanted to point out that i don't think i'll make anywhere near 200hp, i just meant my end result with my car is 200whp. to achieve that i probably have to go through a few more engine build ups. we'll see.
     
  7. Tre

    Tre Member

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    so you DONT need the blockguard? isnt that going to be bad?

    so how many miles do u have on your new engine now man? how hard have u driven it so far
     
  8. pills_PMD

    pills_PMD Super Moderator

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    its only got 2000 so far. i just put it in 3 weeks ago. but seriously call cory at the number i gave you.

    a blockguard isnt neceassary on an lsvtec. it will just make the engine run very hot.
     
  9. lsvtec

    lsvtec GNU/Linux Evangelist

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    I've got 3500 miles on mine (including one roadtrip) and I don't runa block guard either. Either sleeve it or leave it alone. :)
     
  10. rsaeini

    rsaeini Senior Member

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    i definately understand why it would be running hot cuz the blockguard blocks off most of the area the coolant flows through and it's forced to flow through some small holes. i never thought about it in that way before.

    so, which crank did you use Pills? B16 or B18?
    also, how much of a bore do you guys think i should run? i sort of just want to run the pistons out of my B16 to cut some cost(if they're in good condition).
     
  11. lsvtec

    lsvtec GNU/Linux Evangelist

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    If you use the B16 crank you have a 1.6l engine, if you use the B18 crank you have a 1.8l engine. If you aren't sleeving, don't go much more than 0.020" over. If you sleeve go to 85 or 86 mm.
     
  12. rsaeini

    rsaeini Senior Member

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    so if i go 0.020" over i can still use my stock pistons out of my B16A2?
    ok, so i need the B18 crank also. i think i might be better off getting a B18B shortblock.
    so when i take the block to the machine shop do i need to tell them to resleeve it or resurface it if i am planning on using my stock pistons?
    -sorry, i know the questions sounds a bit stupid but i don't quite understand these aspects of it.
     
  13. si2die4

    si2die4 Junior Member

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    What the hell are you talking about? :werd: I bet anything you would get at LEAST 20 more whp and 20 ft lbs on a stock motor with an Ls longblock. We ALL need tq. and that is where it is at. Add Bost to that and your talking real fucking power! Stock Ls (no motor work) w/safc, 8 pounds from drag kit, STOCK CAT-BACK w/test pipe 234 whp218 ft lbs tq You dont get that shit from no stock b16 block. All I need is the vtec head now! :) This is is my crx I built for fun. I drive a 99Si as my daily driver.
     
  14. rsaeini

    rsaeini Senior Member

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    in LIQUIDS defense, i think he meant it might be a bit if a waste to take my current B16 setup and tear it apart trying to build the LSVtec. cuz normally when people do that type of a build they buy a new head and other stuff, they don't take the motor out of the car and tear pieces from it. it's a very valid point but i'm on a budget of $1000 for this project so i'm forced to tear it to pieces.

    -but i'm going to have another project on the way after this one. i will have a semi-complete B16 shortblock after this build up and that's when i am going to do a complete n/a setup to put into a EG hatch when i acquire it. i am calling that project, "B16, how fast can you run". that project is going to take me the better part of a year and i will be shooting to have a 12-second setup. i want to really see what that B16 can do.
     
  15. Tre

    Tre Member

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    heres a quetion for the guys with no block guard. what is your complete set up and how long have you driven the car for?
    i thought that the bad r/s ratio would be harsh o the cylinder walls if it was high compression

    i want something torquey, realiable and fune to drive
    im just worried sinc everyone is talking about blockguards and others dont recommend it.
     
  16. lsvtec

    lsvtec GNU/Linux Evangelist

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    A block guard won't do anything for the "increased" sidewall loading caused by a low (notice I didn't say bad) R/S ratio. The GSR runs 1.58:1 and the LS runs 1.54:1, not a significant difference. Certainly not the huge problem that idiotic "Evils of the LS/VTEC" article claims. As I said before I have no block guard and I have ~3500 miles on the motor. No loss of compression, no burning oil, and the engine feels strong as ever.
     
  17. pills_PMD

    pills_PMD Super Moderator

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    12.3:1 compression 2000 miles or so...

    no burning oil , etc.. but time will tell
     
  18. lsvtec

    lsvtec GNU/Linux Evangelist

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    I am only running 11.5:1.
     
  19. pills_PMD

    pills_PMD Super Moderator

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    i was saying me:)

    and i have it 81.25 mm bore

    and raisini .. you'll need to rebore it a little to clean up the walls i guarantee it.

    give up the idea of using your pr3 pistons.. i had to.. get pr3 .25 mm over ones
     
  20. lsvtec

    lsvtec GNU/Linux Evangelist

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    I know, I was offering a comparison (in case he cared :) ).
     
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