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Game of Thrones

Discussion in 'Members' Lounge' started by BrutalB83, Jul 25, 2017.

  1. get_nick

    get_nick These snozzberries taste like snozzberries... VIP

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    Which is weird to do after taking two years off. I think everyone involved, writers, actors, directors, are all just ready to move on to something new.
     
  2. B16

    B16 Super Moderator VIP

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    ya, feels rushed.
     
  3. BrutalB83

    BrutalB83 Brutal Moderator Moderator VIP

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    I enjoyed it, but I had a bunch of nitpicks with it. Most of it was so dark that you could barely see what was going on. And why was Jon just sitting on that dragon doing nothing at various points? I guess he was waiting for the Night King, but still, why not do more fly-bys and keep burning the zombies? And what was with the constant showing the main characters being hopelessly overwhelmed but then a few minutes later they're fine?

    The whole battle played out about as predictably as it could have. I can't believe that no one of consequence died. How the hell did Sam survive? And why even bother having the dead wake up in the crypts if no one down there ended up getting killed either? It's just really weird to see it this way because it IS Game of Thrones, but at the same time it's NOT. It's such a different show than it was a few years back. I feel like that shift started happening at the end of season 5 when they ran out of book material to pull from. They used to spend entire seasons traveling places and that was fine because the dialogue was THAT good that it still felt enthralling. Now they just zip around everywhere like they're fast-traveling in a video game and the good bits of dialogue are only good because they're referencing past good bits of dialogue.

    I think the problem is that they blew most of their budget wad on this episode alone. I read that it took over 2 months to film this episode alone and still, you could tell that they had to do some things to save on the budget (like I said, Jon just sitting there doing nothing, the darkness masking some of the battle, etc.). Hence, everything this season has to be crammed in to six episodes so it all feels incredibly rushed. I predict next week will be more talky, episode 5 will be some kind of battle again, and then the final episode will be a mix of action and talk.

    Also, if we don't get that Hound vs Mountain fight that we've all been waiting for, I will fucking RIOT.
     
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  4. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Bleh. Awesome lady character got turned into "just another crazy woman." Bad story move.
     
  5. reikoshea

    reikoshea HS Troll...And Mod Moderator VIP

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    When i watched the episode i 100% agreed with you. And still do to some extent.

    I'm ok with that being Dany's destiny, to just descend into madness and choose to be the queen of the ashes (likely only for a moment), but I hate how they got there.

    After season 6 they said they could end the show in 13 episodes, and what that's done is SERIOUSLY curtailed any ability to develop characters. Not only that they spent precious minutes on fan service when it could have been used for character development of main characters (Arya's sex scene and Brianne and Jamie come to mind right off the bat).

    Even if you wanted to avoid a long drawn out shift in personality by having her overhear some random villagers call her a "dragon cunt" or some other thing to make her not give 2 shits about killing every man woman and child, they could have easily flashed missandei's face up on the screen for a frame or two, or rhaegal falling out of the sky during that LONG close up. Better still they could have kept Rhaegal alive until the seige and let him go down, and have it be the reason she snapped, or have Dany pulling a bolt out of drogon when the bells ring. There's a half dozen ways to make that less frustrating, and instead they were just like "well, Jon rejected her, and she thinks she needs to rule with fear". Such a cop out.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
  6. BrutalB83

    BrutalB83 Brutal Moderator Moderator VIP

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    I agree that this whole heel turn was a bit under-cooked, but it was more than just that, and they have foreshadowed it throughout the season. As soon as they got to Winterfell, Dany realized that Sansa was never going to accept her, so that immediately added a lot of tension. Then she got the news that she is not the true heir to the throne. That got put on hold for a minute due to the battle against the white walkers but afterwards, she realized that the people love Jon and not her, and that she'd be done for if the news that Jon is the true heir gets out (hence why she desperately begged him to keep it secret).

    But of course, he promptly betrays her. In his mind, it likely wasn't a betrayal since he's loyal to his family and he did not promise her that she wouldn't tell them, but still, it's basically a betrayal. Sansa has zero loyalty to her, so of course she promptly told Tyrion, who told Varys, who quickly began working against her. It was a bit unclear, but it looks like he was actively trying to poison her via that girl that worked in the kitchen and it looks like he was sending messages out about Jon's heritage (not sure to who, might find out in the finale).

    Also, she feels that she can't trust Tyrion anymore. All of his advice to her as of late has been bad and seemingly coming from a place of giving his family the benefit of the doubt (even after all the shit Cersei has done to him). He also convinced her to trust Jaime, who then turned around and tried to go back to Cersei. Tyrion then full-on betrayed her also by releasing Jaime and trying to arrange for Jaime and Cersei to escape. Whether Dany knows about that, I'm not sure. Guessing we'll find out in the finale.

    Also, she's lost her most trusted advisors, the ones that she felt were truly "her people" that were loyal to her (Jorah and Missandei) and she lost two of her dragon children. That, combined with getting no love from the northerners AND getting the cold shoulder from Jon ever since finding out the truth about him is a lot.

    Like I said, still under-cooked and I agree that it needed more episodes to build this out better, but I don't think that it was just out of nowhere. She wanted revenge for the dragons and for Missandei, and she also wanted to send a clear message to both King's Landing AND to the northerners and anyone else who might think about betraying her, that anything but allegiance will result in a fiery death. It was a mistake for sure. She could have endeared herself to Westeros by accepting the surrender but she let her emotions get the best of her.

    EDIT: Also, I've found this season disappointing (like a lot of people), so I went ahead and read the leaked ending. I won't spoil it for anyone, but I found it to be mostly predictable with a few twists, and it will probably be disappointing for most viewers. I wouldn't say that it's terrible. It seems consistent with the rest of this season...actually, consistent with the past three seasons (which are all the post-books seasons).
     
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  7. get_nick

    get_nick These snozzberries taste like snozzberries... VIP

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    It was literally her character for 8 seasons and 353145243543 pages of books. It's her character arc and literal family genetics.
     
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  8. get_nick

    get_nick These snozzberries taste like snozzberries... VIP

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    This is a pretty great summary. The whole "mad queen" plotline could have been developed over a whole season before she even decides to attack Westeros.
     
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  9. reikoshea

    reikoshea HS Troll...And Mod Moderator VIP

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    And that's my beef with it, not that it happened, as has already been said, everyones been throwing the mad queen moniker out there for years, it was honestly expected in the end, they just didn't really do enough to make that turn feel like it was supposed to happen. It was far too black and white of a shift for a show that is famously grey.

    As for the books, Dany's still in Meereen feeding and bathing the sick and dying outside her gates right now....She's ruthless, but she's not heartless. That's again, why this feels like such a shock. She's ruthless to her enemies, but selfless to the innocent.

    The slightly longer version of events could have even gone down the Joffrey path. Instead of burning Varys maybe have grey worm torture him, drogon remove some limbs...i dunno, anything to say she's lost the plot. Maybe she does that in a village that is "sympathetic" to her enemies. Her sulking at dragonstone doesn't quite convey that she's lost it. The "mercy is our strength" line is the only bit we get, and it wasn't much. When she finally does lose her shit, it doesn't fell like she ended up there naturally.

    For me the greatest strength of this show is how real the characters feel, and how you can see them evolve over time, and every major character evolution since season S7E01 feels like its thrown in just because "we have to get to the ending", and not because the events have shaped the person that way.
     
  10. get_nick

    get_nick These snozzberries taste like snozzberries... VIP

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    This was explained in the finale last night. It wasn't that she lost her shit and became a "mad, murdering tyrant", the plot evolved to the point where should couldn't tell the difference between true enemies and threats and the innocent. The black and white areas of enemies and innocent turned gray and she mistakenly destroyed them all.

    While it wasn't the ending that most wanted, it was the ending that everyone should have expected.
     
  11. get_nick

    get_nick These snozzberries taste like snozzberries... VIP

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  12. reikoshea

    reikoshea HS Troll...And Mod Moderator VIP

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    You sound like you're rationalizing abuse :p
     
  13. get_nick

    get_nick These snozzberries taste like snozzberries... VIP

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    I'm just explaining a little about the show. lol

    IMHO, the difference between "ruthless" and "mad" is intent. Cersei was "ruthless" because she intended to murder everyone at the end of season 6. Dany killed everyone because she was "delusional", aka mad.
     
  14. BigJ

    BigJ I'm just about that action Boss. VIP

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    Kind of a soft ending but meh. I didn't mind it. Excited for any spin offs. I like the universe.
     
  15. E_SolSi

    E_SolSi Member of the 20 nut club Moderator VIP

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  16. D16Civic

    D16Civic Matt VIP

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    I almost caved to the pressure and started binge'ing this last month. Then I heard there was gonna be a Deadwood movie coming out at the end of May and decided to take my time and re-watch all of that instead.

    What a great fucking show. How that ended after 3 seasons I will never understand, Cocksuckers.
     
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  17. get_nick

    get_nick These snozzberries taste like snozzberries... VIP

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    The ending doesn't take away from it being a great show. It took it from being an 8.5-9.0/10 to a 7.5-8.0 (for me). Dexter ended terribly, but it doesn't take away from the fact that Season 3 of Dexter was one of the greatest seasons of television in history. Breaking Bad had an ending that elevated it from 8.5 to a 9.5 if not 10/10.

    In the end, there's always a need to have a good level of "payoff" at the end of anything you're invested in. We all know that. :p
     
  18. reikoshea

    reikoshea HS Troll...And Mod Moderator VIP

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    I've probably written about 10 different replies to this post now. I'm just gonna say I do agree with you, and that there are plenty of scenes to go back and watch and get that nice little nostalgia trip.

    One thing I keep coming back to is how AWESOME the first "dracarys" scene is with the unsullied. It's great because she's like "not only have I been smiling as you call me a slut, I'm going to have my dragon's kill you by speaking the same language". Every time they used it after that it just felt cheap.

    There were plenty more awesome scenes like that strewn throughout the show that will probably make me think of it fondly, and I still go back and watch them on youtube.

    "not today", "high born girls say my lady", "im gonna eat every fucking chicken", "tell cersi it was me", "head crushed like a watermelon", "i choose violence", "the tower of joy", "Brianne and Arya training", "sept of baelor"...and all of those rank above the red wedding for me, the show did create some really awesome memories.
     
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  19. get_nick

    get_nick These snozzberries taste like snozzberries... VIP

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    I had two higher level thoughts as well.
    1) I don't think the show will age well. I think the plot is a little slow at times. In 10 years, people will remember the show, but with all the spinoffs, i think it will be diluted. The story is good, but not great. The things that made it an epic show were the shock value, cinematography and great acting from a few key characters (looking for you little imp man) that unfortunately didn't get as much screen time as they deserved.

    2) it's going to have a low rewatch value. It's long, and an arduous trip and the things that made it great (the shock value) will be diminshed. And once you know the ending, people will question why certain scenes where ever made at all. Maybe when HBO sells streaming rights to Hulu or Netflix, it will have a rebirth. But overall, I'd wager that 50% of viewers never watch it again. And of the remaining, the only time they watch it is when they buy the box set on blu-ray.
     
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