Gay book ban

[Prowler]

blanco, it sounds very much like you just contradicted yourself.

first you state that homosexuality is hardwired into someone. then you state environmental factors can be influencial, like prison. it's one of the other, not both.

again, everyone has a choice. it's all on if you act on it or not.

 

[Battle Pope]

As I see it, anyone has the capability to have any non-hereditary trait.

 

[Kcihcaton]

Originally posted by Prowler@Dec 3 2004, 03:32 PM
blanco, it sounds very much like you just contradicted yourself.

first you state that homosexuality is hardwired into someone. then you state environmental factors can be influencial, like prison. it's one of the other, not both.

again, everyone has a choice. it's all on if you act on it or not.

[post=426005]Quoted post[/post]​

It can't be both? Why not?
Is it against natural law for one person to choose to be gay and another to be born that way?

 

[Prowler]

Why should people have to supress their natural urges just to make Christians happy? Yes, homosexuals can choose to not be happy and live a lie, but why should they be forced into it against their Constitutional rights?

you're completely dodging the issue: is homosexuality determined before you're even born? you answer bringing up an issue that has already been discussed. people can live their gay life if they want, as it is a right.
already been discussed the last two pages.

and it can't be both environmental and hereditary issues that determine if you're gay. if it's hereditary, no environmental issues could change how you are. and vice versa. both are mutually exclusive.

 

[sohcslammer]

God I'm glad I stayed outta this thread....

 

[Battle Pope]

Originally posted by Prowler@Dec 3 2004, 05:33 PM

Why should people have to supress their natural urges just to make Christians happy? Yes, homosexuals can choose to not be happy and live a lie, but why should they be forced into it against their Constitutional rights?

you're completely dodging the issue: is homosexuality determined before you're even born? you answer bringing up an issue that has already been discussed. people can live their gay life if they want, as it is a right.
already been discussed the last two pages.

and it can't be both environmental and hereditary issues that determine if you're gay. if it's hereditary, no environmental issues could change how you are. and vice versa. both are mutually exclusive.

[post=426054]Quoted post[/post]​

Psychological traits are not present when a human life is born. Psychological traits (such as homosexuality) are formed and develop over time with influence from the person's atmosphere and upbringing.

 

[Guy]

Homosexuality might be against natural law, if it didnt happen in nature, which it does. The molestation argument falls apart because it isn't likely that animals in nature that exhibit homosexual behavior were molested my an older animal, and subsequentially became gay.
Most modern thought on the subject seems to implicate both biological (not genetic) predisposition as well as social setting as having a part in the formation of sexuality. Within homosexual males it is common to find a relativly smaller anterior Hypothalamus, similar to that of heterosexual women (both attracted to men). Alternatly larger anterior hypothalimus indicates a general attraction to women (as found in homosexual females and heterosexual males).
A good article on the subject can be found at: http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~kripston/ho...Biological.html

 

[Guy]

Originally posted by Prowler@Dec 3 2004, 07:33 PM


and it can't be both environmental and hereditary issues that determine if you're gay. if it's hereditary, no environmental issues could change how you are. and vice versa. both are mutually exclusive.

[post=426054]Quoted post[/post]​

Sexuality can be controled by the individual, especially if the individual lives in a society that seriously frowns on their sexual preference. Beyond that, according to kinsey institute, there are not really clear cut homosexuals/heterosexuals, but sexuality spans along a continuim with all shades of gray, which all people fit along.

 

[Battle Pope]

I see it kinda like the pH scale.

 

[hcivic.com]

Originally posted by micah+Dec 3 2004, 03:58 AM-->

all im gonna say about the whole gay thing is...


i can take every single argument about homosexuality being genetic, not being a choice, or just it being sexual preference and apply every single one of them to pedophilia and bestiality.

who is going to argue the validity of those?

i dont see how sexual taste is any different then musical taste. the fact that i hate country music and listen to mostly hardcore/metal has absolutely nothing to do with genetics. its personal preference, i choose to listen to what i want. just like i choose to fuck who i want. simple as that.

[post=425690]Quoted post[/post]​

Originally posted by micah@Dec 3 2004, 12:24 PM
Blanco

@Dec 3 2004, 01:12 PM

And Micah, how do unmolested six year olds decide that they like the same sex?  Why are there proven cases of homosexual animals of various species?  For that fact, why has my friend's six year old daughter been madly in love with me since she was two (long story)?  Because who you're attracted to is already hardwired when you're born.  In all fairness, some homosexuals do practice by choice, like the woman who gets tired of men treating her like shit so she turns to women.  You honestly can't compare beastiality and pedophilia to homosexuality.  Fucking a goat or a five year old is wrong no matter how you slice the pie.

[post=425835]Quoted post[/post]​

ah, so your saying that its genetic for a man to love another man, but its not genetic for a man to love a child.

whats the difference?

if all your looking at is genetic code, then how is it not possible? if your going to argue that a lifestyle choice for one person is genetic then how can you argue that its not for the next person?

[post=425875]Quoted post[/post]​

there is evedence that pedophila ia a genetic trait. the only way to prevent the urgess of pedophila is with chemical castration

 

[Battle Pope]

Nonsense! This is an outrage! I want solid proof!

Maybe a link?

 

[hcivic.com]

you want proof that pedeophiles are fucked up do a search on the subject.
im saying fucking leave the gays alone they like me ok great that means less competion for the straight guys

 

[micah]

there is 1 basic reason for sex. reproduction. that is why we all have sexual organs.

man + man = no reproduction
woman + woman = no reproduction
man + woman = reproduction

i think we have a winner alex


the fact my hair is brown is genetic, the fact my eyes are blue is genetic, the fact i listen to hardcore music is not, the fact i read fantasy novels is not, the fact i spend way too much time on the internet is not, the fact i drive a honda is not

musical preference
clothing preference
hobby preference
vehicular preference
sexual preference

its all nothing but a preference

preference = choice

your lifestyle is shaped as you grow up. we are all products of our environment to a certain point.
if you grow up in a family full of cowboys and live on a ranch chances are you are going to be a cowboy.

if homosexuality was hereditary then it would not be the widespread phenomenon that it is now. how can you pass down genes if you cannot reproduce? 2 gay guys gonna suck it up and do some women just so they can keep homosexuality alive?

 

[hcivic.com]

Originally posted by micah@Dec 3 2004, 08:19 PM
there is 1 basic reason for sex. reproduction. that is why we all have sexual organs.

man + man = no reproduction
woman + woman = no reproduction
man + woman = reproduction

i think we have a winner alex


the fact my hair is brown is genetic, the fact my eyes are blue is genetic, the fact i listen to hardcore music is not, the fact i read fantasy novels is not, the fact i spend way too much time on the internet is not, the fact i drive a honda is not

musical preference
clothing preference
hobby preference
vehicular preference
sexual preference

its all nothing but a preference

preference = choice

your lifestyle is shaped as you grow up. we are all products of our environment to a certain point.
if you grow up in a family full of cowboys and live on a ranch chances are you are going to be a cowboy.

if homosexuality was hereditary then it would not be the widespread phenomenon that it is now. how can you pass down genes if you cannot reproduce? 2 gay guys gonna suck it up and do some women just so they can keep homosexuality alive?

[post=426150]Quoted post[/post]​

you have no idea of how gentics work do you?

 

[94RedSiGal]

Originally posted by micah+Dec 3 2004, 10:19 PM-->

there is 1 basic reason for sex. reproduction. that is why we all have sexual organs.

man + man = no reproduction
woman + woman = no reproduction
man + woman = reproduction

[post=426150]Quoted post[/post]​

Only one reason? Not really. We have sex because the animal part of us feels horny. The fact that it kicks off the reproduction process is Mother Nature's clever design for the continuation of our species and other forms of animal life. Yes, as animals, we have sex which causes us to reproduce. Thankfully, we are a species evolved to the point of higher thought and thanks to our scientific knowledge, we now have a choice to enjoy sex and NOT have babies.

At some point, the Christian god told his subjects to go forth and multiply... but you really don't need to multiply any more, as we have more than enough humans on this planet. Actually we really have too many people on earth at the moment. There have been recents studies suggesting that worldwide, we are just producing enough food to feed ourselves. One bad session of drought in the wrong area, and bammo... worldwide famine and chaos. This makes sense as even though we have plenty of food in the US and the better developed countries, many of the third world countries are poverty stricken and living hand to mouth. If we had a better ratio of people to square acreage, perhaps there would be less wars and civil strife. Look at what's going on in Africa... so much genocide, all triggered by one group trying to bully another out of their land and it's happening all over that continent. Or even in America, ghetto turf wars and then than hunting incident last week in Wisconsin over the deer stand... the American redneck vs the immigrant Hmongs.

Anyway, are you saying that we can only have sex to make babies? I sure hope not. If I intend to never get pregnant, am I allowed to have sex... or even get married? Should atheists allowed to be married? Or what about atheists that don't want kids? Marriage is about love and committment, not about that one reason of yours, sex. And I know a few gay and lesbian couples that have adopted babies and children and are giving them a great life. And some of those kids were unwanted by their families. So yeah, let the gay and lesbian couples be allowed to formally pledge their love for each other and have a real family life. Them raising children will not make more gay people. Think of your own parents, when you were growing up, they were not naked and having sex in front of you. If anything, none of us can imagine comfortably our parents going at it. I would think that kids raised by gays and lesbians would be cooler people, more open-minded, tolerant and accepting of other people's differences. And again, that's what our world needs, more tolerance.

Oh and it has been observed that high levels of stress and also conditions of overpopulation in colonies of lab rats causes homosexual activities. Also in many pack animals, including primates, the dominant male will fuck the lesser males, and they will put up with it. It's a sign of submission and them accepting his position as the alpha male.

micah@Dec 3 2004, 10:19 PM
musical preference
clothing preference
hobby preference
vehicular preference
sexual preference

its all nothing but a preference

preference = choice

[post=426150]Quoted post[/post]​

Golly. The human brain is really quite extraordinary and complex in its workings, or at least mine is. lol. Preferences are not by concious choice. How can you say otherwise? Musical tastes? Can civicious conciously choose to like muzak over than what he likes now? Can B make himself be attracted to women with big boobs? Can I make myself like and want to own any (large) American car with an automatic transmission? I think not.

Tastes, preferences just happen for the most part. My loving Hondas was just a logical development though. Hehe.

 

[micah]

your looking at everything to literally

just because reproduction is the reason for sex doesnt mean thats the only way you can or should use it.

and as far as tastes go.. yes they can change.

as people grow older and mature and the world around them changes there tastes change.

ever heard of fads? lol people conciously change there tastes daily. some do it to try and fit in, some do it for self improvement, etc

im not trying to argue wther homosexuality is right or wrong, wether it is natural or not.
all im saying is that its your choice wether to be gay or not. you are not born a homosexual, just like you are not born a comic book collector.

you learn things as you grow up and form your own opinions and tastes. some people are more heavily influenced by society and there surroundings then others. some people embrace there influences and conform to whats around them and some people rebel against it.
ultimately it all comes down to you. what you decide to do.

 

[94RedSiGal]

Originally posted by micah@Dec 4 2004, 04:08 AM
1. your looking at everything to literally

just because reproduction is the reason for sex doesnt mean thats the only way you can or should use it.

2. and as far as tastes go.. yes they can change.

as people grow older and mature and the world around them changes there tastes change.

ever heard of fads? lol people conciously change there tastes daily. some do it to try and fit in, some do it for self improvement, etc

im not trying to argue wther homosexuality is right or wrong, wether it is natural or not.
3. all im saying is that its your choice wether to be gay or not. you are not born a homosexual, just like you are not born a comic book collector.

you learn things as you grow up and form your own opinions and tastes. some people are more heavily influenced by society and there surroundings then others. some people embrace there influences and conform to whats around them and some people rebel against it.
ultimately it all comes down to you. what you decide to do.

[post=426214]Quoted post[/post]​

1. No. You were taking the argument literally first with you saying that reproduction is the 1 reason for sex and then you went on with those silly man + woman equations. I was only countering your literal statement with another literal one.

2. Yes, tastes can and do change. Consciously no, unless you are a silly shallow sheep person. Maturity, environment, obligations to work might be factors changing someone's teenage preference for wearing a motorcycle jacket (without owning a motorcycle) to later on wearing a suit. Or the transistion from mini skirts to longer length ones. Speaking of tastes, if all the cool musicians and actors were dating obese women, would you or your friends be following that fad? I think not. Gayness is not some trendy fad that someone picked up while passing through NYC or SF.

3. And again no. Absolutely not. It is not anyone's personal choice to be gay. So if your mom were held hostage at gunpoint, could you force yourself to have a gay relationship? Perhaps you don't know any gay people well, but I assure you, they did not choose to be attracted to members of their same sex. As someone same earlier, it is idiotic to think that gay people chose this more difficult and many times shunned path in life. And as to gays in literature, of the books that I know of, none of them glorify the gay lifestyle. And don't assume some generalization that childhood sexual traumas cause gayness. If anything, severe sexual trauma would probably cause someone to not to be interested in sex at all.

In terms of how tastes and personalities develop from birth to adulthood, consider you and your siblings, especially those of the same sex. Are you not all different in personality? Have different tastes in gfs (or in the case of girls, bfs) and cars?? And yet you all basically had the same environment growing up. If you are an only child, just look around you to your friends' families.


And lastly, what about Mary Cheney? Don't you think that with all of her daddy's money, his position as Vice President of the US, a Christian conservative and the fact that she loves her family... following your line of thought, she should be able to with therapy renounce her lesbianess and be straight. But no, she is a lesbian with a gold wedding band on her finger. She is a lesbian because she just is. She is happy with the way she is although her mother is not comfortable with it.

 

[jeffie7]

You would think I would have jumped into this one eh?

I know two people that have gay sons both fathers have done everything they could to find out why. after years and years of research they still have no idea why.

One guys son died in the 70s from AIDs the other guy has TWO step sons both are gay.

From therapist, doctors, and anything they could think of that could maybe help them understand why......

bottom line they're gay becuase they want to be. it's not a sickness it's not passed down in the family its THEIR choice.

I guess it's hard to base all gay people off 3 gay guys but it seems to be pretty common that no matter what people do they can't make them not gay.

I Found it kinda funny one of the fathers with that had the gay son(guy who died from aids) use to sit his son down and show him porn, get girls to go up to him and try suxal things... anything he could think of to break the GAY trait. Ok son I know you're gay but heres a willing pussy now go fuck it.... =) I wish all dads were that cool =)

 

[K2e2vin]

i have no clue whats going on..but about the gay thingy; i remember on the osbornes the male dog was fuckin a male cat...what would that be?

 

[Havok]

Originally posted by jeffie7@Dec 4 2004, 01:30 PM
bottom line they're gay becuase they want to be. it's not a sickness it's not passed down in the family its THEIR choice.

[post=426270]Quoted post[/post]​

That might be the dumbest thing you have ever said.

No one chooses to be gay. They don't say one day "Hey, let's go through live being frowned upon by the rest of the world. Let's make things incredibly difficult for the rest of our lives."

I can't force you to love someone, and vice versa. I don't CHOOSE to like girls, I just do. When I fall in love, you can't just say "Ehh, fuck it, I don't think I will like her anymore." There is still a part of you that will love an ex-lover for the rest of your life, no matter how much you hate them.