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goal to max fuel effciency

Discussion in 'HYBRID -> EG-EK / DC' started by xxcrewmemberxx, Dec 29, 2009.

  1. xxcrewmemberxx

    xxcrewmemberxx New Member

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    I've been looking at 92-95 civic hatchback vx's for the past few months trying to find a car which is good on gas. I've looked at metros, and other cars which are good on gas but the civic hatch appeals the most to me. My first intention was to buy a vx or buy a hatch shell and swap a vx( d15z1) motor in. After doing some research I've come across the d15b three stage vtec-e jdm motor which claims to deliver the same fuel effciency as the d15z1 as well as producing 130 hp. I also have seen that there is a d13 engine out there somewhere. I want to know is it possiable to put the d15z1 head onto a d13 block?? I think the best set up would be the d13 block with the z1 head. But i dont know much about these hondas yet. Can anyone tell me what the best route would be to go with this? Again my goal is fuel effciency not power. As long as I get enough HP to merge on the highway and reach 70mph with out revving the hell out of the engine.
     
  2. K2e2vin

    K2e2vin Senior Member

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    Yes, Z1 head will work on D13 block. Though, getting a D13 is the hard part.

    Best route would be to just stick with a D15Z1 or 3-stage D15B(and put it in a 88-89 CRX HF or any other CRXs). You could turbocharge it for a little more power and possibly better mpg; a guy on D-series.org was getting 70mpg IIRC on a turbocharged D-series, I think he was around 200whp also.
     
  3. reikoshea

    reikoshea HS Troll...And Mod Moderator VIP

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    bet that was before ethanol.
     
  4. xxcrewmemberxx

    xxcrewmemberxx New Member

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    Couple more things... are you sure that the valves will operate properly and have enough clearance with the d13 with z1 head? also is there a way to estimate what the compression will be before i start the project? what ecu would i have to use with this setup? and will a trans from a vx or cx work on the d13 block? if not what kind of trans do i need? and would it really be worth the extra money to put a turbo on?? i know turbos increase HP but i never heard of them increaseing MPG. And turbos dont kick in to a certain rpm like 2000 or so, the z1 head only operates in lean burn mode til 3000 or 3500 rpms. the only pro i can find here is highway driving where you are at a constant 3-4000 rpm
     
  5. xxcrewmemberxx

    xxcrewmemberxx New Member

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    also i know that the 85-87 crx hf's weigh in at 1713lb and the 92-95 are around 2100lb but i want a car that still looks half decent not a box on wheels. and also do you know if it would be possible to swap this motor on to a 96-00 geo/chevy metro instead?? those only weigh in at 1800lb
     
  6. klyph

    klyph Dismember VIP

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    You'd rather use a geo metro than a 3rd gen CRX that weighs less?

    GTFO, now.
     
  7. K2e2vin

    K2e2vin Senior Member

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    3rd gen CRX is supposedly a Del Sol. 88-89 CRX HF's weigh around 1800lbs also and are pretty aerodynamic, wouldn't really call it boxy either. There's a couple HFs past the 100mpg mark(refer to those eco-forums). The CRX HFs have a lower Cd than the Metro too(the Metro has the same Cd as the 92-95 HBs IIRC). Weight makes the biggest difference in acceleration so if you cruise a lot, the difference between a 92-95 Civic CX/VX and Metro with the same engine may be negligible.

    Zealautowerks is a pretty accurate calculator but you need specs of the D13 pistons(I believe they're PM0, in which case they're slightly higher compression than PM3/P08 pistons). The Z1 head should have low lift camming so that should not be a problem. You can always clay to make sure.

    Turbo's don't kick in at specific RPM, they're driven strictly by exhaust energy and they can be sized to "kick in" at any RPM and throttle angle. If you find one small enough that'll "boost" at a very low throttle angle and rpm, you can possibly see huge gains. A turbocharger simply increases efficiency.

    Yes, CX and VX tranmissions will fit the D13. Though, if you get a second gen CRX, the HF transmission would be the ideal choice. Also, the transmission will determine the cruise RPM. With a VTEC-E engine, the CX, VX, and HF transmissions are beneficial(very tall gearing).

    Big must; get a tune! In this case, a P28 ECU with aftermarket WBO2(just for tuning) would be your best bet.

    If you want, yes, you can fit that engine into a Metro, though it's a lot more work than dropping into a Honda chassis that performs just as good if not better(The Geos are similar in "performance" to 92-95 Civic CX/VXs, and the 95 and older vehicles do not need emissions/CEL testing).

    btw: I hit 57mpg hwy with my 88 Honda Civic HB(this is a boxy car btw!), cruising at 4000rpm(~70mph). Another guy with a short-gear transmission got like 40-something mpg hwy also with a short-geared transmission. Though, our engines are full 4-valve head(I have a JDM D15B VTEC and I think the other guy had a D16Z6)
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2009
  8. klyph

    klyph Dismember VIP

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    Ah yes, I was reffering to the 1G CRX which is based on the 3G Civic.
     
  9. disableddan

    disableddan Crazy Insane

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  10. klyph

    klyph Dismember VIP

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    If you look at the "boat tails" they try to achieve with those cars, it's very similar to what the crx comes with stock.
     
  11. reikoshea

    reikoshea HS Troll...And Mod Moderator VIP

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    thats crazy. crazy i tell you............i kinda want it, but i dont think it'll fit in my garage.
     
  12. xxcrewmemberxx

    xxcrewmemberxx New Member

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    i think that boat tail is a lil to much for me to handle... so i think this is the route im going to go.... get a 92-95 civic hatch ( cause i like the way they look compared to the crx or metro) find a d13 block put a z1 head on it with p28 ecu, match it with a vx trans and turbo charge it with the smallest turbo i can find.... any one else see anything else i should do or change?? also how much would it cost to get all the parts i need for a turbo??
     
  13. klyph

    klyph Dismember VIP

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    The audi/vw crowd give away their stock K03's
     
  14. xxcrewmemberxx

    xxcrewmemberxx New Member

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    now i just found out that there is a d12 engine out there from a car called a honda city in japan.... the bore size is said to be at 72mm thats 3mm less than the d15/d16 engines which are at 75 mm.... now my question is will the z1 head fit on the d12 block or will there be an issue with the valves.... also is it just the strock length that is determining the displacement in these engines??!! if so wouldnt i just be able to find a crankshaft from either this d12 or d13 engine and swap it into a d15 motor??
     
  15. klyph

    klyph Dismember VIP

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    For the hassle, stick with a D15. For the money you're gonna spend on that rare JDM shit, you'll be paying it off in MPG's til the wheels fall off.
     
  16. K2e2vin

    K2e2vin Senior Member

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    The D13 is actually EDM IIRC, so it's harder to get than any JDM engines.

    As for the D12, I don't really know much about it.

    A "Homemade" turbo setup can be had for relatively cheap(biggest cost is the turbo itself). For an MPG build, skip the intercooler. I'd say it can be done for about $200+tuning. Main things you would need is turbo, adapter(use CX/Std/HF manifold), BOV(a DSM one would work fine...may not even need one), and piping for intake and exhaust.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2009
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