Going for Mileage

[dresp]

I am considering buying an '87 DX with the standard engine. I wanted to put a later HF engine in (the D15B6) but after reading about pressurized fuel systems, I got scared off. I will stick with the carburetor, I suppose... welcome to 1925! Should there be any problem swapping a 1.5L D15A2 (the DX engine) for a 1.3L D15A2 (the HF engine)? I am going for high mileage which seems to be the reverse of what everyone else is attempting. I don't want to have new motor mountpoints welded in and I don't want to have to reroute fuel lines or AC lines or any of that.

There's lots of specific talk about specific details in these forums, but little talk about the big picture things like... where do you get an engine? Can you even get 1.3L D15A2's? How does an engine arrive? What about the tranny, I'll have to get the HF tranny to boot. Am I digging myself a hole with this swap?

 

[raceman14]

Mileage...

Dude,
Carbs are pretty advanced if you know how to work on them, I have a 94 yup 94 Geo Metro daily driver w/ 167,000 miles on it and it gets 47mpg and I drive the hell out of it shifting about 5500 all the time. Suzuki 3cyl loves it. I have not even looked at the plugs in the 75,000 miles I have put on it. I have changed the oil about every 5000 miles and thats it... as long as it keeps getting 47mpg, I am not changing a thing. Oh yea, I put a $4 air filter in it about 40,000 miles ago.

I will be building a multi-carbed B18 pretty soon and using it in shop car for dyno testing, as I do not have a chip burner yet so I'll just use 1920's technology to get the thing going.

BTW, Cup cars make 850Hp on antiquated pushrod engines with old Holley carbs on them. Thats about 150hp per liter with 2 pushrod driven valves... not too bad for old technology. If you throw a decent turbo on one of those exact engines you get almost 2000hp at the rear wheels that is about 350hp / liter.

I am looking forward to putting the smack down on an all motor v-tec as it is like having 3 camshafts profiles in one engine to play with, all at the same time, along with 4 valves per cylinder... I am going to have a blast....

Mark
PerformanceChassisDyno.com

 

[Celerity]

I am considering buying an '87 DX with the standard engine. I wanted to put a later HF engine in (the D15B6) but after reading about pressurized fuel systems, I got scared off. I will stick with the carburetor, I suppose... welcome to 1925! Should there be any problem swapping a 1.5L D15A2 (the DX engine) for a 1.3L D15A2 (the HF engine)? I am going for high mileage which seems to be the reverse of what everyone else is attempting. I don't want to have new motor mountpoints welded in and I don't want to have to reroute fuel lines or AC lines or any of that.

There's lots of specific talk about specific details in these forums, but little talk about the big picture things like... where do you get an engine? Can you even get 1.3L D15A2's? How does an engine arrive? What about the tranny, I'll have to get the HF tranny to boot. Am I digging myself a hole with this swap?

downgrading engines is NOT an easy thing to source out, because people swap and toss. BUT if you can find one, then it will be cheap.

These motors are rare. in the 80s people simply never ordered them because gas was 45 cents a gallon.

The older 1.3s are going to be hard to find in appreciable condition, and then rebuilding them is going to be hard as well. people aren't making seals for them, components or anything else.

And FI was around in about 1925.

 

[TurboMirage]

if you want gas mileage move up to a modern car. modded as it is, i get ~35-40mpg in my mirage.

 

[Celerity]

and an HF can commonly get 65 mpg.

 

[K2e2vin]

My 88 std gets 55-60mpg hwy. Modern cars(hybrids) just have better city mileage.

 

[Celerity]

Yeah, I mean 84-91 Civics and CRXs just have it going on for mileage, hands down.


the HF motor, back on topic, is still not an easy find.

 

[TurboMirage]

yeah, like a needle in a haystack...

 

[Celerity]

Oh yeah, and if you want a mint HF motor, including shipping and all, you're going to be faced with a $3000 bill.

Composimo here restores these cars (Like... fucking RESTORES them) and to get a 2nd gen back into factory fresh condition is going to cost you about 18k. Which with inflation, is like a $24,000 2 seater. I would pay it. Would you ?

 

[dresp]

Thanks for the responses. I love to hear about different experiences. I didn't mean to suggest that carburetors are inferior tech... it just seems odd that any car after 1980 would have a carburetor.

If I wanted to go ahead and try to do the "swap", where would I even start looking for an HF engine? And what about the tranny? And would I have to get different motor mounts? Or tranny mounts?

Celerity, you suggested that if I could find one, it would be cheap... where would I look and what is "cheap" in $$$ (approx., of course!)

Thanks!

 

[Celerity]

The find itself will be cheap. The problem here is your fellow man.

You see, when people get the HF they beat the ever living piss out of it so they have a reason to swap in another engine. Sorry, that's life.

So when you find one, the chances of it not being crispy are slight. So doing it right will net you a rebuild and reconditioning, which may go through full machine shop services.

So it will either run you $50 "Slap it in the trunk" or it will run you $3000 shipped to your door, rebuilt and perfect in a crate.

If you get the $50 one that you dug out of the mud at some obscure parts-n-pull, then you'll wind up with about $2500 in rebuilding necessary, so it's all the same thing.

Good, Fast, or Cheap. Pick two.

 

[dresp]

Thanks Celerity. So I think you're saying it's probably a waste of time to try and get a blown out motor and rebuild it myself. I wasn't planning on doing that. I just need a standard rebuilt HF engine. I need to know if they have different mount points. Or if I should just go with the DX engine which I know will fit (and can use the current tranny). I imagine I can probably do a few tricks to get the DX engine deliver better fuel mileage.

 

[93civicracer]

Get a 5th gen Civic. My 4 door 5-speed gets good mileage, haven't calculated it but 10 miles round trip daily to school n back, 10 miles round trip daily to work n back, plus wherever else I go, along with redline pulls in the mix, I only gotta fill up once every 5-7 days (depending on days off) and it costs me $25 for a full tank of premium gas. About $100-125/month altogether.

 

[Celerity]

That advice is pure failure