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GS-R/B-16

Discussion in 'HYBRID -> ED-EF / DA' started by sekondgen, Feb 19, 2004.

  1. sekondgen

    sekondgen Junior Member

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    Idrive a 91 Integra with a b-16. I want to purchase a b-18c to remedy the lack of tourqe the b-16 is puting out. I was told that my b-16 head on a gs-r block will make more power than an itr engine. Is this true? What configuration will give me the most bang for my buck? Any info would be greatly appreciated.
     
  2. Tokay

    Tokay Member

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    :D Yes, this is true the B18c head has 36cc's less than the b16 head:hence more displacement =more horse power. I would also recomend using a type r intake and throttle body with this set up so you have enough air flow. the next best thing would be a b18c5 head {type R} 97 integra very rare though=expensive.

    Also since you'll have the head off have good machine shop port and polish and deck the head 30 to 60 thousandths to bump the compression slightly in your favor.
    Also add any type R exhaust of your choice {I like skunk 2's} and some civic type R or Integra type R cams while your at it.also adjustable cam gears will come in handy after milling the head they will need someadjustment. :worthy:
     
  3. MikeBergy

    MikeBergy Blah blah blah....

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    The reason for the b18c's smaller combustion chamber is for a higher CR, I wouldn't worry about the trade-off of have a b16 head vs. a gsr head, the results won't be noticeable compared with the amount of difference given by switching to a gsr block. Just go with a b18c block. Since you drive a 91 integra (just like me btw) no exhausts except for 90-93 exhausts will fit, unless you decide to go with a custom setup. I don't think skunk2 makes an exhaust for our year integra, but greddy does, and so does thermal research and development, which I've heard good things about, as long as you don't mind a loud exhaust, which I am told they are. Anyway, if you just want to make up for torque, and don't live in CALI, get a turbo, it's probably cheaper, it's adjustable to your driving habits, and you don't have to worry about another swap. You'll get the torque you want, not to mention you'll be able to keep the b16 with its ideal engine geometry intact. Just my 2 cents.
     
  4. B18C_NA

    B18C_NA Banned

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    word with mike, stay with GSR. some pistons and cams, fuel and air management and you're good. But if you don't want to go turbo, ITR or CTR pistons is a good base setup.
     
  5. GSRCRXsi

    GSRCRXsi Super Moderator Moderator VIP

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    i dont know here you are getting your info from but stop spreading misinformation. the size of the combustion chamber has NOTHING to do with displacement. the bore and stroke change that. the smaller combusion chambers in the head raise the compression ratio. if you just slapped on a b16 head onto a stock GSR, you would loose power and torque (because you are losing the GSR intake manifold which is designd to give more low end torque).

    and milling your head for compression is a bad way to make compression. if someone fucks something up, you are shit outta luch cause you will need a new head cause they already took too much off to fix anything. if you want to bump your compression, do it the right way, get higher dome pistons.

    and milling the head has nothing to do with adjusting cam gears. and honestly, you dont need adjustable cam gears on stock cams.

    stop spreading misinformation. it makes you, and more importantly, the board, look bad.
     
  6. MaaseyRacer

    MaaseyRacer Senior Member

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    If everything is stock then this is definatly false, however, an ITR is basicly a GSR block, with higher compression pisstons. A B16 head with a slight porting job, and better valvetrain, and a super sweet tranny that has a 4.75 final drive and a Limited slip differential.
     
  7. daidilus

    daidilus Member

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    errrrr umm if you get a bigger combustion chamber...your CC does increase.....the combustion chamber is where the stuff blows up...if you put a bigger combustion chamber on an engine......the CC increases..durr


    do this.....change out the head and blocks

    http://www.knology.net/~jediklc/D.htm

    they may be d-series..but the same principle
     
  8. Doc_Honda

    Doc_Honda Junior Member

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    Dude, sounds like your refering to the "poor mans TypeR"... only your forgetting 1 key ingredient... the Type-R pistons.

    Add it up... B18C1 Block, crank, and rods + B16A1 Head + B18C5 pistons = slightly better than a B18C5, and less expensive
     
  9. Doc_Honda

    Doc_Honda Junior Member

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    Obviously you have no Idea what your talking about.

    Displacement is measured by the volume of the COMBUSTION CHAMBER at the largest point, and then again at the smallest point.

    on a 4cyl engine, Take the larger volume, subtract the smaller volume. Now multiply this # by 4. Thus Displacement.

    Now in your own words... "stop spreading misinformation. it makes you, and more importantly, the board, look bad."
     
  10. UDT

    UDT Senior Member

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  11. Slammed90Lude

    Slammed90Lude Senior Member

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    yes that's true, and the difference between the two combustions chambers in the two different heads makes such a small difference in displacement that it isn't worth talking about- The big effect of a smaller combustion chamber is a higher compression ratio as said above- The way you are talking about combustion chambers affecting displacement is the same as say a higher dome piston drastically decreases your displacement because it takes up more area in the cylinder- the main function of a larger dome on a piston or a smaller combustion chamber is to raise compression not to decrease displacement
     
  12. Dj_RiiCe

    Dj_RiiCe Junior Member

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    Dammmn......Gsr Crx Si.........


    haha Jp......ur my boi Ian !!!
     
  13. radnulb

    radnulb Senior Member

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    I know this might be heresy to suggest, but why not just throw a LS block underthere? Swap over the vtec oil pump and water pump, and be done with it? You can get 2-3 LS blocks for the price of a GSR block around here... Treat them like they're disposable cause they are. You're not driving a fucking ferrari, you're driving a mass produced japanese consumer car. Besides, I've seen plenty of LS/vtecs have long lives when built right and you get a Wednesday motor.
     
  14. B16

    B16 Super Moderator VIP

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    what is displacement, it is the change in volume. ok, so you have a b16 head on your gsr block, there is so much volume you begin with. piston travles down and displaces so many cc's. the size of the combustion chamber does not affect displacment, why? because it doesn't "displace". the change in volume by having the different head is not considered because this is your "starting" volume, no matter how big it is. the change in volume happens from the stroke of the piston going down. you are right in saying you start with the larger volume and subtract the smaller volume, but guess what, the combustion chamber does not change during this process. the added volume in the combustion chamber is the same at the beginning and the end, so yes, they cancel each other out. for a better explaination look here.
    http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question685.htm
     
  15. Chauncey_333

    Chauncey_333 Junior Member

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    I copied this qoute from http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question395.htm
    Increase displacement - More displacement means more power because you can burn more gas during each revolution of the engine. You can increase displacement by making the cylinders bigger.

    Sounds like we all need a refresher in calculus
     
  16. GSRCRXsi

    GSRCRXsi Super Moderator Moderator VIP

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    yea and when you add volume via the head you are adding volume to BOTH the volume at TDC and BDC.

    lets do the math shall we...

    b18c1 engine
    bore: 81mm = 8.1cm
    stroke: 87.2mm = 8.72 cm
    GSR combustion chamber size: 41.60cc
    B16 combustion chamber size: 42.70cc
    piston dome (USDM): -.60cc
    we will neglect piston to deck height and head gasket thickness since they are so minute

    First lets find the Volume at BDC:
    using the equation for volume of a cylinder (pi*r²*h) where r=(8.1)/2cm = 4.05cm, and h=8.72cm.

    V=pi*(4.05)²*(8.72)
    = 449.34136892443cc
    = .44934136892443 liters
    now thats only one cylinder so we need to multiply by 4
    = 1.7973654756977 liters

    now subtract piston dome:

    1797.3654756977-(-.60*4)
    = 1799.7654756977 cc
    = 1.7997654756977 liters

    now add combution chamber size:

    1799.7654756977+(41.60*4)
    = 1966.1654756977 cc
    = 1.9661654756977 liters

    Now time for Volume at TDC:
    now since we are neglecting piston to deck height and headgasket thickness, we can assume that the valume provided by the bore and stroke to be 0 (zero) because h in our equation becomes 0 (zero).

    subtact piston dome again:

    0-(-.60*4)
    =2.4cc
    =.0024 liters

    now add the combustion chamber size:

    2.4+(41.60*4)
    = 168.8cc
    = .1688 liters

    Now i will do just like you said, biggest volume (BDC) - smallest (TDC).

    1.9661654756977-.1688
    =1.7973654756977 liters

    this is the displacement for the GSR head. Now lets do the B16 head. since everything is remaining the same besides combustion chamber size, we can skip most of the above steps. we will start right at the point for adding the size of the combustion chamber at BDC and TDC....

    BDC:

    1799.7654756977+(42.70*4)
    =1970.5654756977 cc
    = 1.9705654756977 liters

    TDC:

    2.4+(42.7*4)
    = 173.2 cc
    = .1732 liters

    now to calculate the displacement with the B16 head:

    D=BDC-TDC (again just like you said)
    = 1.9705654756977-.1732
    = 1.7973654756977 liters

    does 1.7973654756977=1.7973654756977? :yes:

    and even if it did work it would only add 4.4cc of displacement, no where near close to the 36cc's you were boasting

    and the calculator only shows a difference of .01 cc's. im guessing that the reason for the different numbers in the calculator is due to the way they have the program setup with their floating decimal places.

    so :newbie: 's
     
  17. GSRCRXsi

    GSRCRXsi Super Moderator Moderator VIP

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    yes making the cylinders bigger will increase displacement, but not the cylinder head combustion chambers. that doesnt affect displacement at all, and thats what the debate is about.

    sorry if thats what you meant...
     
  18. Dj_RiiCe

    Dj_RiiCe Junior Member

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