801CRX
Got Rice?
Yeah the electric turbo is shit homemadeturbo.com did it and they said it was more of a restriction.
gsr whp
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Yeah the electric turbo is shit homemadeturbo.com did it and they said it was more of a restriction.
where did you get that info from? no fucking way you will make 235 lb-ft trq. stock block doesnt have enough displacement to pulls those kinds of numbers. thats why the only people making those numbers are 84, 85, 86mm bore. and a lot the guys end up getting bigger cranks as well to push past the 250 mark. i think the highest numbers ive seen from a 81mm bore and 87.2 or 89mm crank is about 220-230 dynojet. if anyone says they are getting 250+ with some cams and a header and bolt ons, they are full of shit.
we get it, you want to do it right, but we cant spoon feed you everything. you need to stop being so gullible with what people tell you and use your head. and do some research. and research doesnt count as looking at what the manufacturer or company selling the product you want to buy. they will tell you whatever you want to hear to make a sale. do some searching on h-t, stop asking so many questions, and just take in the info. every single thing you have asked could have been answered if you just took the time to search.
and you dont NEED 86mm bore, id stick with a 84mm-85mm. pistons are more common in those sizes and will be less expensive. but just stop trying to make that power on stock bore (81mm) its just not gonna happen on streetable compression and pump gas. and even with crazy compression (14+) and race gas its gonna be hard to get much past 230
you seem dead set on a few things, reguardless of the info given to you.
bc4 cams
stock bore
$100 vj
if you stick to this you arent gonna make your 235-260 numbers you are looking for. if you want that, you are gonna have to make some changes. you cant have your cake and eat it too. its all about sacrafices and compromises.
check this thread, it should help you get a more realistic view of what kind of power to expect from a 1.8L stock block setup. Let's see your 1.8L OEM Bottom-end, ALLMOTOR, 91 Octane Dynos
get a GOOD header, some good portwork, and VJ and id bump them to 210-220ish, id highly reccomend portflow but theres lots of good options (RLZ, Alaniz, head games, pure tuning, and a few guys on h-t that do an excellent job and will do it for a good price). i had my headwork done at portflow and they do excellent work for a good price (full headwork, disassembly, cleaning, inspection, port, polish and deshroud chambers, multiangle valvejob, assembly = 1000).
the numbers vill very slightly from dyno to dyno and will also vary with different types or dynos (mustang and dyno dynamics tend to read low, dynojets are fairly close to each other and have become a standard for comparison, and dynapacks tend to read high, so before you get excited or bumed about numbers consider what kind of dyno it is)
as they say, its time to shit or get off the pot. just build your shit already. do whatever you want but you have our recommendations on what you should do to reach your power goals. follow them if you like, but if you dont, dont come back crying about how your motor didnt make the power you wanted and ask why.
and you dont NEED 86mm bore, id stick with a 84mm-85mm. pistons are more common in those sizes and will be less expensive. but just stop trying to make that power on stock bore (81mm) its just not gonna happen on streetable compression and pump gas. and even with crazy compression (14+) and race gas its gonna be hard to get much past 230
you seem dead set on a few things, reguardless of the info given to you.
bc4 cams
stock bore
$100 vj
if you stick to this you arent gonna make your 235-260 numbers you are looking for. if you want that, you are gonna have to make some changes. you cant have your cake and eat it too. its all about sacrafices and compromises.
check this thread, it should help you get a more realistic view of what kind of power to expect from a 1.8L stock block setup. Let's see your 1.8L OEM Bottom-end, ALLMOTOR, 91 Octane Dynos
get a GOOD header, some good portwork, and VJ and id bump them to 210-220ish, id highly reccomend portflow but theres lots of good options (RLZ, Alaniz, head games, pure tuning, and a few guys on h-t that do an excellent job and will do it for a good price). i had my headwork done at portflow and they do excellent work for a good price (full headwork, disassembly, cleaning, inspection, port, polish and deshroud chambers, multiangle valvejob, assembly = 1000).
the numbers vill very slightly from dyno to dyno and will also vary with different types or dynos (mustang and dyno dynamics tend to read low, dynojets are fairly close to each other and have become a standard for comparison, and dynapacks tend to read high, so before you get excited or bumed about numbers consider what kind of dyno it is)
as they say, its time to shit or get off the pot. just build your shit already. do whatever you want but you have our recommendations on what you should do to reach your power goals. follow them if you like, but if you dont, dont come back crying about how your motor didnt make the power you wanted and ask why.
Let me tell you about my friend, Greg.
Greg is one of the most knowledgeable young adults that I know when it comes to cars. Since I've known him, he's spent THOUSANDS of (recorded) hours behind various computers visiting various websites to do research on mechanical engineering, internal combustion theory and function, product comparisons and reading other people's dyno charts\setups etc...
Greg also has worked on and off (due to college) at our local race shop, who has been racing Honda\Acura for years. He's been responsible for the work done to countless modified (sometimes heavily modified) vehicles, most of which were Honda\Acura, has run the dyno (mind you, he's my age @ 21yrs.) numerous times, tuned the cars on the dyno, has done trouble-shooting for countless vehicles in numerous situations and has hundreds upon hundreds of wrench hours on his personal 90 Civic Si.
Greg, thinks he is a dumbass. Greg looks at all there is to know (broad and vaguely) about cars and thinks about what it takes to know what the fuck he's doing day in and day out and basically, he has this concept in his head that no matter how much he has accomplished, there is always someone else with someone valuable to teach him. Regardless of what setups he sees, he understands that no result, NOT ONE, is typical, that no two engines or builds, no matter how similar are the same and the one thing he understands the most is the importance of his willingness to be proven wrong so that he may learn the facts and grow as a mechanic\tuner\builder\car guy.
Greg had a roll cage assembled and installed in his car for designing a web site for a machine shop that works along side of his race shop. After all of the races he's pit crewed for, all of the cars he's worked on\research he's done\knowledge he's acquired from his boss and co-workers (all of whom are DECADES older than he with far greater levels of experience), he thinks he has an idea of what he wants out of a roll-cage in his car, and what he thinks a good roll-cage consists of. Mind you, a lot of his own personal research went into this besides the collaborative knowledge he's gained prior to striking such a good deal. Within the first fifteen minutes of talking to the cage builder\designer, he had thrown EVERYTHING he thought he knew out of the window and left the entire build entirely up to the guy doing.
Here's why: He told me that despite all of the trusted information in his skull, he realized one thing talking to the man doing the job. He's a professional, I am not.
This doesn't mean that this guy won't give the customer what he wants, it's simply more of a matter of the builder wanting the customer to have the best, safest and most functional cage possible while tailoring certain things around the customers wants\needs (ie. best cage possible if you want to keep certain interior components for example).
The reason why I made this excessively long post was to help teach you some things. You've done a lot of research, but not nearly enough. You have a clue what you want as far as the big picture goes, but you aren't there 100%. You ask your fellow community members here and on other forums for advice, opinions and information. You've gone about this in a fairly reasonable\fairly intelligent way, and that is a good thing. Most people new to this have a lot less grace and far fewer (sadly enough) questions along the way to their goal.
What people like Blanco and GSRCRXSi are trying to do for you is to help you abandon common notions and misconceptions that you have about what to expect during the assembly of the engine, or as results of the assembly. They have continuously throughout numerous threads and posts answered your questions, helped correct information that you have, offered their opinions and build concepts and tried to get you to understand the costs of your goals but you keep asking redundantly without ever paying attention that closely.
No one here is a professional (at least, that is the assumption you should make until anyone proves they are), the people you will take your engine to to machine, rework, rebuild and tune your engine are. Get your goals together FIRST, figure out your budget, and take these two things to the people for whom you wish to design\build this engine for you. Perhaps you, like Greg, will abandon the Super Street mentality once talking to a professional or two who do these things daily and have been for years. With any luck, you'll learn something as they re-gear the design of your setup more economically and more efficiently in the direction of your goals while staying within your budget.
Remember, you are paying them to do something for you, do it right, do it well, do it as soon as possible, and do it like it belongs to them. If you are asking them to do anything outside of the realm of those things, if they are a TRUE professional, they will explain to you and teach to you the reasons why their way is proper and correct and why the things you might have in your head are detrimental to your own goals (and you might not even know it).
For now, I suggest you research as much as possible. Look for people with similar power outputs and setups as yours, find their dyno sheets, research their parts lists, analyze the cost and you'll have a better IDEA (NOT guarantee of what to expect, but IDEA) of what to expect of your own goals. Likewise, it would be in your best interest to get more familiar with concepts pertaining to the function of internal combustion engines to facilitate your engine designing, as well as to help you understand why some parts are better or worse than others altogether, or per application, etc...
And, when you come here to ask questions, try to communicate as effectively as possible (type well, use good english, DON'T use industry\street buzz words, just proper terminology), limit your number of threads if they are similar in nature to each other and try to grasp as much as possible of what more intelligent people, like Blanco and GSRCRXSi are trying to get into your head. We're here to HELP each other, but if you abuse that, and ask too many questions, are redundant or overall unrealistic in the eyes of the people that are trying to help you out, you will get less responses, learn less, and likely will one day have a "getting out of the game sale" while you try to sell thousands worth of stuff because you've lost interest, haven't learned anything and your shit never works right. No one wants to help a rice boy with pipe dream goals, what we want to do is help educate other enthusiasts while trying to learn more ourselves, find deals through each other on cars\engines\parts, and to be mutually beneficial all around to each other as a COMMUNITY, hence the purpose of the forums.
Keep these things in mind as your post here on anywhere else and you should have a more rewarding build\car experience in general, as well as forum experience. Now get out there to your machine shop and start talking business!
Greg is one of the most knowledgeable young adults that I know when it comes to cars. Since I've known him, he's spent THOUSANDS of (recorded) hours behind various computers visiting various websites to do research on mechanical engineering, internal combustion theory and function, product comparisons and reading other people's dyno charts\setups etc...
Greg also has worked on and off (due to college) at our local race shop, who has been racing Honda\Acura for years. He's been responsible for the work done to countless modified (sometimes heavily modified) vehicles, most of which were Honda\Acura, has run the dyno (mind you, he's my age @ 21yrs.) numerous times, tuned the cars on the dyno, has done trouble-shooting for countless vehicles in numerous situations and has hundreds upon hundreds of wrench hours on his personal 90 Civic Si.
Greg, thinks he is a dumbass. Greg looks at all there is to know (broad and vaguely) about cars and thinks about what it takes to know what the fuck he's doing day in and day out and basically, he has this concept in his head that no matter how much he has accomplished, there is always someone else with someone valuable to teach him. Regardless of what setups he sees, he understands that no result, NOT ONE, is typical, that no two engines or builds, no matter how similar are the same and the one thing he understands the most is the importance of his willingness to be proven wrong so that he may learn the facts and grow as a mechanic\tuner\builder\car guy.
Greg had a roll cage assembled and installed in his car for designing a web site for a machine shop that works along side of his race shop. After all of the races he's pit crewed for, all of the cars he's worked on\research he's done\knowledge he's acquired from his boss and co-workers (all of whom are DECADES older than he with far greater levels of experience), he thinks he has an idea of what he wants out of a roll-cage in his car, and what he thinks a good roll-cage consists of. Mind you, a lot of his own personal research went into this besides the collaborative knowledge he's gained prior to striking such a good deal. Within the first fifteen minutes of talking to the cage builder\designer, he had thrown EVERYTHING he thought he knew out of the window and left the entire build entirely up to the guy doing.
Here's why: He told me that despite all of the trusted information in his skull, he realized one thing talking to the man doing the job. He's a professional, I am not.
This doesn't mean that this guy won't give the customer what he wants, it's simply more of a matter of the builder wanting the customer to have the best, safest and most functional cage possible while tailoring certain things around the customers wants\needs (ie. best cage possible if you want to keep certain interior components for example).
The reason why I made this excessively long post was to help teach you some things. You've done a lot of research, but not nearly enough. You have a clue what you want as far as the big picture goes, but you aren't there 100%. You ask your fellow community members here and on other forums for advice, opinions and information. You've gone about this in a fairly reasonable\fairly intelligent way, and that is a good thing. Most people new to this have a lot less grace and far fewer (sadly enough) questions along the way to their goal.
What people like Blanco and GSRCRXSi are trying to do for you is to help you abandon common notions and misconceptions that you have about what to expect during the assembly of the engine, or as results of the assembly. They have continuously throughout numerous threads and posts answered your questions, helped correct information that you have, offered their opinions and build concepts and tried to get you to understand the costs of your goals but you keep asking redundantly without ever paying attention that closely.
No one here is a professional (at least, that is the assumption you should make until anyone proves they are), the people you will take your engine to to machine, rework, rebuild and tune your engine are. Get your goals together FIRST, figure out your budget, and take these two things to the people for whom you wish to design\build this engine for you. Perhaps you, like Greg, will abandon the Super Street mentality once talking to a professional or two who do these things daily and have been for years. With any luck, you'll learn something as they re-gear the design of your setup more economically and more efficiently in the direction of your goals while staying within your budget.
Remember, you are paying them to do something for you, do it right, do it well, do it as soon as possible, and do it like it belongs to them. If you are asking them to do anything outside of the realm of those things, if they are a TRUE professional, they will explain to you and teach to you the reasons why their way is proper and correct and why the things you might have in your head are detrimental to your own goals (and you might not even know it).
For now, I suggest you research as much as possible. Look for people with similar power outputs and setups as yours, find their dyno sheets, research their parts lists, analyze the cost and you'll have a better IDEA (NOT guarantee of what to expect, but IDEA) of what to expect of your own goals. Likewise, it would be in your best interest to get more familiar with concepts pertaining to the function of internal combustion engines to facilitate your engine designing, as well as to help you understand why some parts are better or worse than others altogether, or per application, etc...
And, when you come here to ask questions, try to communicate as effectively as possible (type well, use good english, DON'T use industry\street buzz words, just proper terminology), limit your number of threads if they are similar in nature to each other and try to grasp as much as possible of what more intelligent people, like Blanco and GSRCRXSi are trying to get into your head. We're here to HELP each other, but if you abuse that, and ask too many questions, are redundant or overall unrealistic in the eyes of the people that are trying to help you out, you will get less responses, learn less, and likely will one day have a "getting out of the game sale" while you try to sell thousands worth of stuff because you've lost interest, haven't learned anything and your shit never works right. No one wants to help a rice boy with pipe dream goals, what we want to do is help educate other enthusiasts while trying to learn more ourselves, find deals through each other on cars\engines\parts, and to be mutually beneficial all around to each other as a COMMUNITY, hence the purpose of the forums.
Keep these things in mind as your post here on anywhere else and you should have a more rewarding build\car experience in general, as well as forum experience. Now get out there to your machine shop and start talking business!
Look, this is really basic, not even 100% accurate, but let me try and help clear some things up for you, as generally as possible.
Block = damage magnet\rev limiter\power limiter
Head = air gallery\ combustion central\ rev limiter
Alright, your block needs to be built for the following reasons: increase rev potential, increase compression, increase displacement, increase strength\longevity
Head for the following reasons: improve combustion efficiency, improve flow, improve rev range, to handle any kind of forced induction, increase tuning potential (mechanical and electronic)
You can have a stout engine with a stock block, the only reason you would need to "build" it is to add compression, displacement or strength (OR to make it more capable to handle higher revs), but generally, the majority of tuners make their power in head work.
The head regulates the majority of the "variables", this is why combustion chambers, valve seats, ports, and valve train items are reconfigured. They depend on each other, not themselves, to produce results, so you want to find the weakest parts in the head and replace them (ie. your head is good to 10K RPMs, except for your retainers, if you want to rev that high, switch retainers, duh). Likewise, you want to find where you're losing efficiency and potential, reworking ports, valve seats, and combustion chamber configurations will do this. Ideally, every component of the head will work together, that's why we change it from stock. You want the components to work at a compromise, so that nothing is the weakest link. The block however, has more to do with the longevity, efficiency (oiling for instance), and damage (high boost, etc) that the engine has to endure. It's the place to increase your mechanical\base power by increasing the displacement, improving the R\S ratio (and other ratios), and increasing or decreasing the amount of static compression you have. It's also where the oil\water systems are located, which can also improve or degrade a lot of things about the engine based on their build\parts\etc..
More stroke = more torque, more compression = more power, things like this should be in your head when considering what you want. For more torque, you may have to sacrifice revs. Concepts like that (equivalent exchange...ish...) also should govern your choices... you can't have it ALL with tuning and building, you have to make compromises to achieve your goals. Granted, all of the things I have stated may not be entirely accurate, I'm in a rush and rusty on some things, but the point is that I'm tryin got show you that you need certain mindsets and things in your head when consdiering the build of the engine, it's not as easy as most make it out to be, but it's NOT and I mean NOT rocket science either. The easiest thing to do is OVERTHINK!
Block = damage magnet\rev limiter\power limiter
Head = air gallery\ combustion central\ rev limiter
Alright, your block needs to be built for the following reasons: increase rev potential, increase compression, increase displacement, increase strength\longevity
Head for the following reasons: improve combustion efficiency, improve flow, improve rev range, to handle any kind of forced induction, increase tuning potential (mechanical and electronic)
You can have a stout engine with a stock block, the only reason you would need to "build" it is to add compression, displacement or strength (OR to make it more capable to handle higher revs), but generally, the majority of tuners make their power in head work.
The head regulates the majority of the "variables", this is why combustion chambers, valve seats, ports, and valve train items are reconfigured. They depend on each other, not themselves, to produce results, so you want to find the weakest parts in the head and replace them (ie. your head is good to 10K RPMs, except for your retainers, if you want to rev that high, switch retainers, duh). Likewise, you want to find where you're losing efficiency and potential, reworking ports, valve seats, and combustion chamber configurations will do this. Ideally, every component of the head will work together, that's why we change it from stock. You want the components to work at a compromise, so that nothing is the weakest link. The block however, has more to do with the longevity, efficiency (oiling for instance), and damage (high boost, etc) that the engine has to endure. It's the place to increase your mechanical\base power by increasing the displacement, improving the R\S ratio (and other ratios), and increasing or decreasing the amount of static compression you have. It's also where the oil\water systems are located, which can also improve or degrade a lot of things about the engine based on their build\parts\etc..
More stroke = more torque, more compression = more power, things like this should be in your head when considering what you want. For more torque, you may have to sacrifice revs. Concepts like that (equivalent exchange...ish...) also should govern your choices... you can't have it ALL with tuning and building, you have to make compromises to achieve your goals. Granted, all of the things I have stated may not be entirely accurate, I'm in a rush and rusty on some things, but the point is that I'm tryin got show you that you need certain mindsets and things in your head when consdiering the build of the engine, it's not as easy as most make it out to be, but it's NOT and I mean NOT rocket science either. The easiest thing to do is OVERTHINK!
The more I learn and understand, the less I realize I really know.
There are a few professionals who frequent this board but they haven't made any replies in any of your topics...save Cal but he doesn't work in the automotive engineering field, so he doesn't really countp). That's why I told you to start talking to professional builders. Ask them your questions, listen with an open mind, if something goes against what you've learned ask them as a question but don't argue with them. Always remember that professional builders have more knowledge in their little finger than you have in your entire head and you'll always be humble enough to learn from them.
on the first comment.And
I stopped responding after I saw it was futile...
And yes, I've built engines, but I'm not a pro- I leave the really touchy stuff to the people that REALLY know what they're doing.
94_gs-r
can you say 260 whp N/A??
the next one is going all balls out. not going to be streetable. thats the one that is going to take the most time. this is basically a test drag car because i dont have the money to do the other but its also nice to have 2 cars 1 na and 1 turbo
im trying to learn as much as poss with this one
im trying to learn as much as poss with this one
Estorvito
Soy Boricua
Huh? Sorry, I'm not a moderator.