Discussion in 'Wheels / Suspension / Tires / Brakes' started by UDT, Mar 7, 2004.
what do you guys think is a better set up for a street car thats aimed at all out perfomance.
anyways, tein basics suck for the money. especially if you want 'all out performace' and are getting their springs made of jello. what car are these going on? i have no experience with the h&r, i've heard it's good, but i'm sure there's better. koni yellows with gc coilovers and custom rates is what you want - 9 out of 10 autox people will confirm. i ran those, and sold them for some tein ss (i was drunk) and i will be getting them back with stiffer spring rates. tein is overpriced, anything below the RA isn't that great. don't buy into the hype.
i think alot of people on here would disagree with your opinions on the tein's
i think a lot of people don't have experience with teins. i do. look at the spring rates they give www.tein.com .
Your statement about the tein basics is kinda BS. They are actually very nice setups for those who dont care about damper adjustment. The springs rates are the same as the HA's, SS's, and the HR's. The Basics are properly valved for their spring rates, and overall, tein makes very nice suspension for the money. If you look at buying comprable JIC, look at spending over a thousand.
True coilovers beat GC koni setups anyday.
yeah that fool is a numb nut to suggest GC over either of the two i had up there. we run JIC's on my moms accord, put um on a G pad and i would put money down any day on the accord over another honda with some GC set up.
first to the thread starter, who thinks i'm a numb nut, what are you doing with this car? i feel you should consider this information a little bit before purchasing. if you're just driving around on the streets, and have no intention of competing, the basics will be fine. but you did say 'all out performance', and with the teins, ride comfort is close to stock; therefore, so is handling.
i'm sorry if i come off like a bit of an ass, but it just bugs me to see such uneducated statements posted like this.
any minute now, some one with good knowledge about suspension, and who does not have their head up their ass will come in and back my argument up. let's try to avoid this turning into a fight, but some of your comments are totally absurd, and flat out wrong.
how much money do you have? where's the 'g pad'? and i'm sure my friends 89 civic si with koni yellows and gc coilovers will pull a good bit more than your mom's accord. i'd say it seems like you're a bit of a numb nut for putting $1500 coilovers on your mother's accord; and for thinking that one upgrade automatically makes it handle like a porsche. does the accord have any other suspension upgrades? don't forget it is a heavy accord, with a heavy motor up front.
i think the problem is, you fail to realize that there is a lot more to suspension tuning than just buying expensive stuff. especially when you can get a better setup for less money. but whatever, i'm just a numb nut. suit yourself.
edit cause that was a long ass post
Um yeah........ i had nothing to do with the set up thats on my moms accord it is her and my moms B/F's project. You dont know shit about shit let me just say that first and for most, secondly anything can be slopping deppeding on any number of reasons who knows why your car sucked balls so bad when you tryed the teins bushings, the driver, tires who knows. The question about the H&R's vs the TEIN is very valid ones a coil over the others a shock and spring there both in the same price range so it makes it a hard chice between the two i was looking for specific comparison, but you got all off topic and then tryl to tell me a GC set up is better then the tein basic.........i dont agree and i feel its numb nuty of you to say. You could ramble on al lday about what you have read and what you did with your GC set up im not interested in a sleeve......sorry.
And my moms accord has more then just the JIC's, and yes they are not cheap but guess what.........you get what you pay for. They have been corner weighted with a camber kit and 4 point uper strut tower with misc sway bars on 17"
W-orks wrapped in dunlop sport 9000's. The car will be getting an h22 and rear disk next month. Its been done right and im still willing to bet it would pull circles around yours and your friends cars. Heres a few pictures
The car that i was curious about this set up for would be either a GSR or an EG not sure yet, and it would be more geared to auto X though it wouldint need to be confined to any specific class, i dont care if im not competitive in my class it would be for fun mainly.
Please no more stupid comments and lets try and stick to the subject please*
Yeah dude i think im coo with out your advice, i have done ok so far with out your advice with things i have had to make decisions on pertaining to my car so i think it's safe to say i will be ok
EG's i will admit are pretty under spinged, however, when you look at the DC2 set, they are 8kg front, 6kg rear, they are the same as all the ones I listed.
As for the availibility of the HR's and the HA's, both are still available in japan. I have the HA's for the dc2R on my sol. I have been to about 15 autocross's last year and will be going to my "local" roadcouse come this spring. With a ITR rear swaybar, I get more then enough oversteer, if not too much. I have driven my freind's DC2 with koni GC setup, and I think mine handles better. Both of us run the same front sway and the same rear, and I pull better times then him at autocross's.
GC's are 300, then 40 more for the koni adaptors
Koni's themselves are 500. Thats 840 to run the koni GC setup, and add even more if you want stiffer springs.
With the tein basics, I have seen them as low as $670. Here you get more suspension travel, stiff 8kg/6kg springs and overall good handling car.
No tein's are not the best suspension, but for the price, you get a damn good product where compeditors charge 100's more for a comprable product.
I have talked with tein, and they have said, if you go with the DC2 setup, the valving is on the agressive side and is ideal for a race/street setup.
About them riding close to stock is totally bs. I can garantee you that with 8kg front 6kg rear, the car will ride nowhere close to stock. It is a very stiff springrate for roads around here. Even on a softer setting with my HA's, they are extremly stiffer then stock. Again, I do race on these, and I love them.
Still looking for input on the H&R cup kit though <_<
I have never driven with them, so I have no clue.
sorry if i got a little heated there, i just don't appreciate childish name calling too much. i'm also a little biased, and i have personal beef with tein.
you do know that the h&r cup kit is koni yellow struts that are painted gray and labeled as h&r, with h&r race springs. right? i've never experienced them, so i can't really comment on them. if i remember correctly, the rates are 450F/250R or close to that (i forget). so with the h&r kit, you have good adjustable struts, but with weak front biased spring rates.
and with the tein basics for the dc (which i hope you would get... i just didn't post the rates to support my argument ) you have fixed dampers with better springs - but still a front bias.
it's kind of a tradeoff. what other suspension mods do you have, or plan to have, and what are your alignment specs?
i voted for the h&r, but you couldn't pay me to run either one.
i know i know, but with my proposed koni gc combo, you have good adjustable struts, and whatever the hell spring rates you want. why aren't you interested in a sleeve? sure it's another 100 bucks, but your suspension is the most important part of your car, and it's a known fact that this is by far the best bang for the buck setup out there.
and to uphold the 'you get what you pay for' idea 100% of the time, can be quite a fallacy when it comes to car parts, among other things. it applies to cheap stuff (ie apc, obx, etc), but not expensive stuff all the time (spoon, mugen, cough tein cough).
ya know now that i think about it i never really intended on running either i was mor eless curious after i looked into the two being that there in the same price bracket. i will be running the base model JIC's or tein SS or FLEX though i could end up with a good spring and shock depending on where else the money would be spent.
I did a ton of research on the Koni Yellow / GC vs Tein system when I spec'd out my suspension a year ago... and I ended up going with the Tein FLEX system. Sure, if I was going to run the car all the time on the road course and not drive it at all on the street, I would go with a more aggressive spring rate setup... but I'm not. I just ordered the FLEX with 504/336 rates. It's actually pretty nice, especially with the Eibach sway bars- neutral to mild understeer at the limit. I'm still thinking about a thicker sway bar in back later on.
The cost of the GC/Koni setup was just way too high. You order the GC springs with custom rates (I did that before I got the Teins, but sold the GC later once I figured I needed new shocks too), the Konis, the adapters- THEN you pay $100 a pop (or more) to get the shocks revalved to run your custom spring rates. The Yellows still won't last too long with spring rates above 500 lb/in, so you'd have to get them rebuilt to run crazy rates. Once you add it up, you might as well buy a full coilover system. Just the Koni/GC setup without a shock rebuild added up to MORE than my FLEX system.
I like the way my FLEX system feels right now- and when the Civic transitions to a track only car, you can bet I'll get the Teins rebuilt for something like 600/800... but not while I'm driving 1000 miles a week.
Oh and guys- stop arguing PLEASE. jwn7 has really good points, although Koni/GC isn't the end-all solution for suspension... and you don't need to be calling each other names.
good thread .
i voted for the teins, but then again... i don't know shit .
I hate my ha's more and more everyday, and the car hasn't seen pavement since october. lol
i'm thnking about getting a set of the Sections like I got for the nissan for the sol as well.
And i refraised it and said its a "numb nuty" thing to say so there was no name calling on my end, and he may have a few points here and there but see the problem was he was not on topic he was talking about to brands that are not even listed as options and he was in a sence doing exactly what you just said was far from true , the GC set up being end all basicly, and it just so simply not by a long shot. Theres a different setup for every second in an hour let evry day of the month, millions apon billions of different combos.
of course, those are S13 variety's...
$1320 shipped from jdm land.
talk to thoraxxe (erik) http://dgtrials.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=513
To much for a street car, i think the JICs on the accord are boderline pointless for a street car. I mean dont get me wrong there killer and that cars on fuckin rails but if i think there becoming over kill those things you picked out are extream. Very very cool/impressive though. Your gonna be running them on the sol at some point B?
i just stumbled upon this link: http://www.grassrootsmotorsports.com/shocks.html
it's long, but holy crap is it a good read. read it. don't buy shocks until you do.
and i still maintain that koni / gcs is the end all solution to suspension
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