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H22 have weak sleeves?

Discussion in 'Forced Induction' started by CRseX84, Aug 8, 2004.

  1. CRseX84

    CRseX84 Senior Member

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    hey i think ima be swapin a h22 in my 92 HB and i was gona turbo it. but then my buddytold me i shuld resleeve it cuz the stock h22 sleevs are weeeek. is this true?? i thought they were built a little stronger.. maby not.. any one got an answer for me? thanks guys
    Tyler
     
  2. NotUrAverage_Si

    NotUrAverage_Si Senior Member

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    H22 sleeves are what?...88mm?

    H-series motors aren't the best to boost, but if you're going to then have it re-sleeved.
     
  3. [Freemantle]

    [Freemantle] Senior Member

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    This has nothing do do with the "strength" of the sleeves. If you have an H22 or H23, you have FRM sleeves. What that stands for escapes me.

    -Nutshell
    FRM is another Honda innovation tested on the prelude, much like 4ws and atts. FRM sleeves present a much lower coefficent of friction as compared to regular ductile iron sleeves, meaning that smaller, stiffer ringlands can be used. The problem occours when you run forged pistons with FRM. The heat and concurent thermal expansion will cause the sleeves and piston to grind on each other. There are 345425 pictures of this. Bad news for us, but Honda was pleased with how it performed and put FRM in F20C engines.

    Seeing that Prelude, Accord, and S2000 owners were in a tight spot, Wiseco developed a forged piston that could be run with FRM sleeves. There was a guy on honda-tech who ran this setup for a while with nitrous.


    If anything is going to go, it will be your ringlands. It has nothing to do with boost pressure, it has to do with detonation. Many H-Series are getting tuned like B series engines, including the massive timing advance. You can boost your engine to great success, but the tuning has to be conservative/top notch. If you are afraid of running the FRM pistons (I was), there are plenty of places that will put DI sleeves in your H22. Or you can cheapen the proect up a bit and drop in the JDM f-series DOHC (already has DI sleeves).
     
  4. nismogod

    nismogod Senior Member

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    "JDM f-series DOHC " where is this? and its cheaper then sleeving an h22? also, from what i've gathered, h22 has to be "punched" then sleeved.

    please link to the wiseco pistoms please thanks.
     
  5. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    FRM is a semi metalic coating built into the metal of the sleeves. it makes running forged pistons in them impossible, as they will scar. I've heard mixed reviews about those wisecos... both good and bad.

    As long as you plan to keep stock internals, and run low boost/power theres no need to upgrade.

    but if you want to go with internals, you should sleeve it.
     
  6. 90 accord

    90 accord Chicks dig the box Moderator VIP

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  7. driver1

    driver1 Senior Member

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    so if u can run stock internals and 14 psi and put down 376 WHP and run a 10 in the quarter then why have i heard so many people say on this site that the h series are a "bad" candidate for boost.....i would think that with a closed deck block setup it would be better for boost if anything. :shrug:
     
  8. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    because race cars are not daily drivers.

    hell, my car could make 700 hp.

    once.
     
  9. driver1

    driver1 Senior Member

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    i dont understand how this relates to my question.....race cars arent daily drivers your right but what does that have to do with why the h series is "supposedly" not a good candidate for boost?
     
  10. CRseX84

    CRseX84 Senior Member

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    thats an awesome link 90 Accord thanks bro.. that totaly convinced me to do the h22 over my other motors i was contemplating.. thanks man
     
  11. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    that was in reference to the 10 sec race car with an h22.
     
  12. 90 accord

    90 accord Chicks dig the box Moderator VIP

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    hey B.. first two sentances of the "article..



    last paragraph..



    :D
     
  13. driver1

    driver1 Senior Member

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    thats what im sayin, but what i really want to know is what is the reason why the h series is supposed to be a bad candidate for boost....ive heard so many poeple say it btu no real good reason as to why it is????
     
  14. [Freemantle]

    [Freemantle] Senior Member

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    Ringlands

    Look for the 134525 posts where H-Series guys, turbo or N/A, lost their ringlands. I lost mine, and plenty others have lost theirs. My mom was driving my car when it died, she called me saying "there is this really loud pinging sound coming from underneath the car (I had a small hole in my cat), and - oh no, the check oil light just came on. It's staying on..." That's when I told her to pull over. My ringlands went, the piston siezed and the rod snapped in a few pieces. This is all because of knock.

    So you have to fight knock, especially in a Turbo H-Series. Fuel comes first, then quality parts (I/C, Mani), and you'll be running good, safe boost.


    As for the JDM DHOC, the 4th Gen Si came with the F22B in the Japaneese market. Same HP as an H23, and about 10ft/lbs less torque, but the sleeves are DI type. Many shops in the U.S. sell these as H23s, as performance-wise it is tough to tell the difference.
     
  15. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    not to mention that the balance of h-series motors is horrible. the harmonic balancer does a half-assed job of it in the first place...
     
  16. CRseX84

    CRseX84 Senior Member

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    so if i get the whole botom end rebalanced by a machine shop that will fix that prob right? and it sounds like i need to sleeve my h22 if i want it to last when its turboed...
     
  17. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    even balanced, they are still out of wack. the crank is a poor shape
     
  18. dohcvtec_accord

    dohcvtec_accord WRX Sellout

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    FRM stands for Fiber-Reinforced Mesh. The stock sleeves had this embedded into them, in order to try to strengthen the stock sleeves. Honda made it so that, the "coating" of metal on the outsides of the sleeves does not contain the FRM, and allows for one standard overbore (.025") without contacting the FRM.

    Hence, you CAN run forged pistons in an H22, but ONLY if you do a standard overbore on the engine. Anything more, and you're exposing the FRM, and resleeving is needed.
     
  19. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    are you sure about that?

    the frm is PART of the sleeve... its a moly mixture...
     
  20. driver1

    driver1 Senior Member

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    so.......the debate continues........


    so the carnk is a poor shape huh? how is it desinged in reference to say a b series that makes it a poor shape? and even if u were to get it all balanced ont he bottom end from a machine shop this would still not fix the issue?
    I just wonder because i ahve an h22 and was thinkin about boosting down the road.....and have read alot about successful boosted h22's. and also as much knowledge about the mtor in my car as i can obtain is a good thing as far as im concerned
     
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