impulse94ex
Member
thas awesome
H22 VS B16
- Thread starter impulse94ex
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friz
Senior Member
My 2 cents. I chose a JDM SiR II swap (B16a) Because it can be done with no aftermarket parts and it is a system that was designed for my chassis. I am able to run a stock P30 ECU (No chipping or depending on someone else to get my car running right). Mine is a daily driver and I have over 30000 miles on my swap with no problems. Also I like the stock look under my hood, nothing cobbled.
I would post a picture, but I have semmed to lost the ability to post pistures.
I would post a picture, but I have semmed to lost the ability to post pistures.
Threads like this make me a sad panda.... How can you relate your 1/4 mile times on slicks to two times who were obviously on street tires.... 92mph traps NO THANKS
If you are gonna go through with a motor swap you might as well do somthing a little beyond your scope and learn somthing along hte way.... Ive done 5 h series swaps one of which was my most recient in my own car. The only one that ran slower than 13.90s and trapped less than 100mph was the h23 and it ran 14.20-30s @ 96 or so. Show me a stock b16 or b20 or LS with whatever tranny you want they wont run a mid high 13 at a reasonable elevation. Sure they are good for boost yadda yadda. You want a car that you can embarass most hondas you run across and a decient percentage of the domestics you encounter. Swap an h22.... You wanna look back at your investment with regret. Buy the b16. Sorry f i wanted a low 15 second high 14 second car i would buy somthing new and have a warranty.
If you are gonna go through with a motor swap you might as well do somthing a little beyond your scope and learn somthing along hte way.... Ive done 5 h series swaps one of which was my most recient in my own car. The only one that ran slower than 13.90s and trapped less than 100mph was the h23 and it ran 14.20-30s @ 96 or so. Show me a stock b16 or b20 or LS with whatever tranny you want they wont run a mid high 13 at a reasonable elevation. Sure they are good for boost yadda yadda. You want a car that you can embarass most hondas you run across and a decient percentage of the domestics you encounter. Swap an h22.... You wanna look back at your investment with regret. Buy the b16. Sorry f i wanted a low 15 second high 14 second car i would buy somthing new and have a warranty.
Holy Fuckballs....
Elevation > You and your Friend
OR
Shitty Driving > You and your Friend
B16 hatches (gutted, mind you, but stock [i/h/e]) run High 13's here with a good driver.
H22 Hatches with i/h/e run high 12's with a good driver, all day long.
15 seconds in any B16 swapped coupe/hatch is fucking pathetic......no offence.
but yeh, B16A is a great choice.....especially when you get to boost it later....than all the DOHC VTEC motors are pretty much the same with enough $$.
VTECin5th
Administrator
I'm going to take a stab in your mouth ("no offense") and guess that our times suck more because it was 95 degrees at night. ( and No, the owner of the h22 coupe cannot drive)
h22 hatch here run 13.3-13.7 stock@ 1,243 ASLevel with a good driver on slicks.
I ran it at 72 degrees a couple nights ago, (my b16 coupe) and hit a 15.03 with my (stock) clutch gettin pretty slippy
Maybe i should move to Canada, where everything appears to be superior
I don't understand how you think a b16 is some magical type of superm0t0r?
Maybe in Canada it comes with an optional more HP addition? (Hockey Pucks)
b16a2 = 160hp
d16z6=130hp
Stock Civics run 16.5-16.8
[My single cam ran 16.61]
add 30 HP, and that's supposed to drop me to low 14s?
Yea.....except for NOT.
Anyone who thinks a full interior stock b16a2 95 Ex coupe should run low 14s @ 1,243 feet at 95 degrees (or 9 degrees for that matter) is fucking pathetic.
No offense
Quoted post[/post]]
I'm going to take a stab in your mouth ("no offense") and guess that our times suck more because it was 95 degrees at night. ( and No, the owner of the h22 coupe cannot drive)
h22 hatch here run 13.3-13.7 stock@ 1,243 ASLevel with a good driver on slicks.
I ran it at 72 degrees a couple nights ago, (my b16 coupe) and hit a 15.03 with my (stock) clutch gettin pretty slippy
Maybe i should move to Canada, where everything appears to be superior
I don't understand how you think a b16 is some magical type of superm0t0r?
Maybe in Canada it comes with an optional more HP addition? (Hockey Pucks)
b16a2 = 160hp
d16z6=130hp
Stock Civics run 16.5-16.8
[My single cam ran 16.61]
add 30 HP, and that's supposed to drop me to low 14s?
Yea.....except for NOT.
Anyone who thinks a full interior stock b16a2 95 Ex coupe should run low 14s @ 1,243 feet at 95 degrees (or 9 degrees for that matter) is fucking pathetic.
No offense
woah buddy...slow down before you hurt yourself.
Your elevation sucks...that's why your times are terrible. You're at 1243 feet.....I'm at 600. My full interior JDM SiR II hatch with an intake, 2.25" Magnaflow w/test pipe, JDM B18C clutch and B16B cams, ran a 13.6 on drag radials just last year before I started to take heavy things out. Here's my timeslip:
larger....
Timeslip
H22 hatches run high 12's all day long over here. And 600 above sea is not unheard of either.
and...
JDM B16A OBD1 = 170ps I dont have the USDM B16A2.
And dude, lay off the Canada jokes.....I don't think, you, as an American, have much ground to stand on when it comes to being the punchline of a joke these days. To add to the fact that I wouldn't want to insult those American citizens on this site that I respect so much.
Scorchin Civic
Senior Member
So what are you saying, I should be on street tires too! I never ran a 1/4 mile but my best 1/8 on street tires was a 9.24. Besides what does it matter if I went 92mph and ran a 14.34, I still ran it all motor with no damn vtec too. No difference then someone using NOS! Also, I don't think you understand when you build a good B20 or B18 that they to can run 13s.
Quoted post[/post]]
Dude, relax i actually like Canada, and i want to live there.
15.03 is a GOOD time for a b16 coupe here, i was actually getting props from alot of people at the track.
I have the flu (really bad too) , i didn't mean to get semi-dramatic, i am havin ups and downs.
It's all good man...hope you feel better.
impulse94ex
Member
i didnt mean to start a riot, lol but i am learnin all new shit, i am goin to go with b16 and do some mods to it before it gets droped in the car, i am hopeing to be in the high 14's not too fast but faster than the d16z6 i had, i would like to be faster but i am short on funds...
No thats not what i am saying. I am saying you are comparing times with cars on slicks and cars on street tires and that is not a good comparison. Additionally, i find it worthless to build a motor to do what another can do stock. In my opinion you should start with the best and build from there. Its like in sales training for any major job they teach you to shop with the customers wallet and not your own.If this dude can afford an h22 swap vs a b16 swap than the decision is obvious. Everyone knows that everyone has opinions. It just bothers me when people come into thread where a person obviously is asking about two particular motors and throws in some useless comment. Sure a boosted b20 is cool, or a boosted b16. Or a BUILT all motor b20 can run as fast as a STOCK all motor h22... that wasnt his question. The gentlemen is obviously uneducated and has done enough reserch to come to a conclusion that what he wants is EITHER a b16 or a h22. I love hondas and i love all their motors and possibilites and combinations and everything. But the bottom line is when you start with something better you end up with somthing better.
Thats interesting the dyno chart i posted of my h22R shows it making power to 78-8000 and i shift it at 8200. How about some real world experince here at hondaswap and not E-References to someone elses "reserch"?
If anyone cares to see my car making 208 and 158 BONE stock and making that power to 8k please feel free to send me an e-mail. Ill also be happy to mail you photo copies of my car running 12.80's@105-7 on street tires at your expense. Take a good amout of work to create those kinds of numbers from a GSR or b16 and if you show me more than a handfull of non vtec NON kseries motors makin over 200 ill be impressed. Shit show me more than 2 or even 3.
If you have the money and the desire to learn the H and the K are really the only way to go. Now if you just wanna be different than thats tite, build a b20 or h23 or whatever. It all boils down to end goal and if yur goal is high 14's a b16 with some bolt ons and a tranny that doesnt grind like a grandmas dentures then you should be able to get there with just that. And if you decide to spend some money down the road takin that b16 to 1.9 and boosting the shit out of it will make you some very respectable power. Everything always goes back to money = )
Dude,
No one is saying that the H is not a good motor. The fact is, that it is waaayyy more expensive to work on now, and later. First, you need to buy mounts, where with the B16, you dont. H22 takes more time to swap than the B16. The tranny on the H is honestly, pretty crappy and has a tendancy to momentarily drop out of VTEC during high RPM shifting, the B16's tranny is shorter and more linear. Later down the line when you start to build it, parts are 99% of the time more expensive than a B16. If you want to boost the H over what a stock MAP sensor can handle, you have to sleeve the block (can't run forged pistons without), where with the B16, you dont. Also, the H in a hatch looses much of it's suspension geometry and tends to oversteer like mad due to the considerable weight gain in the nose. These are just a few reasons why half the world has a B16, and not an H, because they are pretty much the same price. But if I was building a Drag car, the H would be my first choice.
And refer to my timeslip in the post a few above this......thats a STOCK B16 hatch....13.6 on drag radials....not high 14's at all. The B16 for some reason is STILL an underrated motor.
VTECin5th
Administrator
I don't think it's underrated adnoh, i think it's because you're at 600FASL. 
I'd be happy as shit to hit a low 14 in my stock b16 coupe, but it will not happen here.
[looking for a 14.8 when i get a new clutch]
I personally think the b16 in stock form is OVER rated, but let me explain why:
When i swapped my b16, i did it because of MONEY, my plan was an H, but the b16 came up for cheap, so i said, ehh why not? $1,100 for complete swap > $2,400+mounts+axles+wiring/tearing a hole in the floor.
[yea, we've done a couple)
I KNEW what a b16 motor was/is, but 90% of n00bz0rs don't.
They think that the b16 is some god send motor that will have them hangin with every '10 second car'.
But truthfully i didn't even expect to hit a 15.5 when i did, and now that i'm at 15.0 i realize that my climate sucks for racing
But i know that had i gone with the h22, i would be accidentally running high13s-low 14s.
Converted to your weather/altitude, that's like low-mid 12s there
Do i regret going b16? not at all.
Would i trade it for an h22 drop in complete swap? You betchya.
I have gained alot of respect for the B series, but I wouldn't buy one for anything upwards of $1,500 complete.
Total swap after axles/harness/misc parts/hoses/etc was $1,500
Total swap for h22 would've been around $3,000
Half the money, and half the torque
[i just re-read that, and realized i may have contridicted myself a lot; forgive me, i am still flu-filled]
Also: I have driven 4 h22 civics[3 hatch, 1 coupe], and NONE of them had any 'understeer' or nose dive issues.
I'd be happy as shit to hit a low 14 in my stock b16 coupe, but it will not happen here.
[looking for a 14.8 when i get a new clutch
]I personally think the b16 in stock form is OVER rated, but let me explain why:
When i swapped my b16, i did it because of MONEY, my plan was an H, but the b16 came up for cheap, so i said, ehh why not? $1,100 for complete swap > $2,400+mounts+axles+wiring/tearing a hole in the floor.
[yea, we've done a couple
)I KNEW what a b16 motor was/is, but 90% of n00bz0rs don't.
They think that the b16 is some god send motor that will have them hangin with every '10 second car'.
But truthfully i didn't even expect to hit a 15.5 when i did, and now that i'm at 15.0 i realize that my climate sucks for racing
But i know that had i gone with the h22, i would be accidentally running high13s-low 14s.
Converted to your weather/altitude, that's like low-mid 12s there
Do i regret going b16? not at all.
Would i trade it for an h22 drop in complete swap? You betchya.
I have gained alot of respect for the B series, but I wouldn't buy one for anything upwards of $1,500 complete.
Total swap after axles/harness/misc parts/hoses/etc was $1,500
Total swap for h22 would've been around $3,000
Half the money, and half the torque
[i just re-read that, and realized i may have contridicted myself a lot; forgive me, i am still flu-filled]
Also: I have driven 4 h22 civics[3 hatch, 1 coupe], and NONE of them had any 'understeer' or nose dive issues.
Quoted post[/post]]
I don't think it's underrated adnoh, i think it's because you're at 600FASL.
I'd be happy as shit to hit a low 14 in my stock b16 coupe, but it will not happen here.
[looking for a 14.8 when i get a new clutch
I personally think the b16 in stock form is OVER rated, but let me explain why:
When i swapped my b16, i did it because of MONEY, my plan was an H, but the b16 came up for cheap, so i said, ehh why not? $1,100 for complete swap > $2,400+mounts+axles+wiring/tearing a hole in the floor.
[yea, we've done a couple
I KNEW what a b16 motor was/is, but 90% of n00bz0rs don't.
They think that the b16 is some god send motor that will have them hangin with every '10 second car'.
But truthfully i didn't even expect to hit a 15.5 when i did, and now that i'm at 15.0 i realize that my climate sucks for racing
But i know that had i gone with the h22, i would be accidentally running high13s-low 14s.
Converted to your weather/altitude, that's like low-mid 12s there
Do i regret going b16? not at all.
Would i trade it for an h22 drop in complete swap? You betchya.
I have gained alot of respect for the B series, but I wouldn't buy one for anything upwards of $1,500 complete.
Total swap after axles/harness/misc parts/hoses/etc was $1,500
Total swap for h22 would've been around $3,000
Half the money, and half the torque
[i just re-read that, and realized i may have contridicted myself a lot; forgive me, i am still flu-filled]
Also: I have driven 4 h22 civics[3 hatch, 1 coupe], and NONE of them had any 'understeer' or nose dive issues.
What is the limit of a stock MAP sensor lol? We just built a 650whp 2litre GSR that is on a stock MAP sensor?..... If anyone wants to see h22 EF hatch that runs on road course tracks here they should check out HumblePerformance.com THat will sway anyones idea that they cant handle. I know you refuted your previous statement about the handleing but that is such an incredibly over usesd arguement with no grounds. Additionally in about 1-2 months there will be a forged pistion available for an h22 that wont require a re-sleeve. And its not that it has a tendency to drop out of vtec or is some fluke.... Under normal redline conditions the tranny is geared in a manner that it simply falls JUST out of vtec. However shifting at 7800+ removes that issue. You will have problems with an h22 tranny if you try to rev it past ohhh say 10k... that is why there are bseris adapter plates now = ) i gotta go now even tho i have more things to say gotta get to work.
impulse94ex
Member
wow thurr is a hondaswap war!!!!!!!!!! anyway ima go wit the b16, it seems to be more what i am lookin for. plus like i sed i have a friend with the same exact car with an h22, so i think if i copy him people will think i copied him anyway, plus with the b16 like others sed i can do the swap on a saturday, nice and easy.
Scorchin Civic
Senior Member
Well, as for me, all I am wanting to do is make a good fast all motor build with my B20 and be proud about it because I will not have V-Tec. Hell, I have a 100% running B16A in my garage that I know I could take the head off and slap it on the B20 (with a little build) and have an even faster Civic. However, I don't want V-Tec, I want all motor nonVtec. Like someone else said, everyone has a different opinion and thought and I wish everyone good luck with there swap.
Quoting you was an accident meant to quote the guy above you... But h22's cant take a "shitload" of boost on stock internals very long... i was wondering what his idea of a mapsensor limit was since to my knowledge they dont have one... thats why mustang,nissan,DSM and verious other builders switch to th em from MAF sensors.
A stock map sensor will take about 12-13psi before you have to upgrade to a GM 3-Bar map sensor unit. Thats what i was talking about. And there is already a forged piston out that is susposed to run in a stock H block, but there is absolutely NO feedback for it, other than prelim testing by the company....can't remember what it's called though Whatever though.......a stock H can pretty much take the same amount of boost than an H in stock form, but thats off topic.
Peace.
Whatever though.......a stock H can pretty much take the same amount of boost than an H in stock form, but thats off topic.Peace.
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