I have a 93 prelude si and I wanted to know more about my options for vtec. I was thinking putting an H22 vtec head would be the cheapest and pretty easy, but i heard you lost power and it wasn't worth it. Another option is just putting the whole H22 in there and building it a little. Or I was also thinking about putting an H23 vtec from an accord wagon in. Trouble is I don't have a good idea of what the advantages and disadvantages are of these three. Which is the best/cheapest/easiest/most power?
H23 vtec
- Thread starter ludegirl
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dohcvtec_accord
WRX Sellout
H23/VTEC head swap: Check the sticky at the top of this forum for info. You'd only lose power if you did the head swap incorrectly. If you do it correctly, you'll see a huge increase in power. Unfortunately, it's tough to find just a VTEC head for a decent price, and the install is slighty tougher than a standard LS/VTEC.
H22 swap: Your best bet. H22's can be had for a good price, and the install is a breeze.
H23 from an Accord wagon: A decent choice, but a few problems. 1. They're extremely difficult to find as they were only manufactured for a couple of years. 2. You're OBD1, and the H23's only came OBD2, so you'd have to deal with some wiring conversions.
Don't forget your other option.....boosting the H23.
H22 swap: Your best bet. H22's can be had for a good price, and the install is a breeze.
H23 from an Accord wagon: A decent choice, but a few problems. 1. They're extremely difficult to find as they were only manufactured for a couple of years. 2. You're OBD1, and the H23's only came OBD2, so you'd have to deal with some wiring conversions.
Don't forget your other option.....boosting the H23.
racerx h23
Member
You'd need the h22 pistons and of course the ecu in addition to the head. Also, I found on hondaautomotiveparts.com that the thermo housing and pipe going to the water pump can be upgraded for better cooling flow. I mentioned it on h-t.com, but no ones responded so I'm not 100% that it'd work.
Honestly, I think boring the h22 would be a better idea than to increase stroke to the h23 block due to the h23s rod/ stroke ratio. Every little bit of help is usefull when it comes to reliability.
Oh yea, all h23s are obd1 and I believe all pre '96 vtecs were also obd1. Also the stock h23vtecs out of the SiR are obd1 and make 200hp 163tq.
Honestly, I think boring the h22 would be a better idea than to increase stroke to the h23 block due to the h23s rod/ stroke ratio. Every little bit of help is usefull when it comes to reliability.
Oh yea, all h23s are obd1 and I believe all pre '96 vtecs were also obd1. Also the stock h23vtecs out of the SiR are obd1 and make 200hp 163tq.
dohcvtec_accord
WRX Sellout
You don't need the H22 pistons. The only difference between the H22 and H23 is the stroke.
Boring the H22 (at least the pre-96 ones) is an extremely bad idea, because forged pistons will no longer work. You've got to completely resleeve the block if you want to bore it out.
Type S parts are good, but usually not worth the money you'll pay for them. The cams aren't too much more aggressive than normal H22 cams, and the intake manifold happens to be hand polished, but that's it. Really, the only worthwhile parts out of a Type S engine are the pistons and the tranny. You can find the pistons relatively cheaply online, and the Type S tranny is slightly closer geared, with the added benefit of an OEM LSD.
Boring the H22 (at least the pre-96 ones) is an extremely bad idea, because forged pistons will no longer work. You've got to completely resleeve the block if you want to bore it out.
Type S parts are good, but usually not worth the money you'll pay for them. The cams aren't too much more aggressive than normal H22 cams, and the intake manifold happens to be hand polished, but that's it. Really, the only worthwhile parts out of a Type S engine are the pistons and the tranny. You can find the pistons relatively cheaply online, and the Type S tranny is slightly closer geared, with the added benefit of an OEM LSD.
racerx h23
Member
You need the pistons to increase the cr to h22 standards. Whats the point to the swap if you end up with less compression than the h22?
For the cost, and the hassle, H22 is the way to go. I cruise Ebay a lot. I bet a guy could find an H22A(engine alone) for less than $900. I only paid $911 for mine. However, the head and intake alone seem to fetch 500-600 or more. Go figure. Now if you dismantle the engine, and use honda gaskets, change the timing belt, etc., you're gonna spend at least 100 bucks on that crap. Why not sell your H23 to a wannabe ricer for 6-700, and buy an H22 for $800-$900? Your swap would be so easy, any backyard mechanic would do it for a six pack and a carton of menthols. Either way, you'd have to wire the Vtec (head swap or motor swap).
Excuse my long-winded-ness. You deserved at least four cents, not just my two.
Excuse my long-winded-ness. You deserved at least four cents, not just my two.
dohcvtec_accord
WRX Sellout
Well, I'm a big advocate of saying (or typing) what you mean. You originally said that he "needed" H22 pistons to complete his swap. Of course, we know this isn't true. It's advantageous to use H22 pistons.
However, there's also the question of, what compression will an H22 head on an H23 block with stock H23 pistons yield? I'd bet it's slighty higher than the stock H23 9.5:1 CR.
However, there's also the question of, what compression will an H22 head on an H23 block with stock H23 pistons yield? I'd bet it's slighty higher than the stock H23 9.5:1 CR.
U also have to remember if doing the h23/vtec its alot less reliable due to the h23 not being intended for high RPM (vtec) range. H22's have piston oil squirters which the h23 do not have, which help during vtec to keep things running smooth. I'm doin the jdm h22 swap as soon as the funds allow it, or possibly turbo my h23, but turbo's just tend to scare me due to reliability and constant maintenance. correct me if i'm wrong on any of dis shitt.
dohcvtec_accord
WRX Sellout
What you said about the shortcomings of an H23/VTEC could be applied (if they were true) to an LS/VTEC setup.
- The LS wasn't intended for high RPM's
- The LS does not come equipped with oil squirters
The H23/VTEC, and similarly the LS/VTEC setup, are only as reliable as you build them.
- The LS wasn't intended for high RPM's
- The LS does not come equipped with oil squirters
The H23/VTEC, and similarly the LS/VTEC setup, are only as reliable as you build them.
racerx h23
Member
To do the h23vtec "correctly" you will have to install the oil squirts. The passages are there, they just have to be drilled and taped. The squirts also have to be shortened a bit due to the crancks counter weights.
The h23 cr is 9.8:1. The h22 has greater head volume, therefore using the h23 pistons will lower the compression.
The h23 cr is 9.8:1. The h22 has greater head volume, therefore using the h23 pistons will lower the compression.
dohcvtec_accord
WRX Sellout
I know several people who, by your methods, did not do their LS/VTEC's "correctly", and the engines are still running strong.
Oil squirters are not necessary for a hybrid VTEC setup. They may help minutely, but by no means are they required for a well-running hybrid VTEC.
Oil squirters are not necessary for a hybrid VTEC setup. They may help minutely, but by no means are they required for a well-running hybrid VTEC.
No, they're not. Just make sure you have good cooling for your engine, and that you keep tabs on the oil when you're running at high revs. Quite a few real racers remove the oil squirters from their GSR blocks anyway to reduce windage losses... when you use forged pistons and have good oil flow, you don't need the squirters as much.
racerx h23
Member
For a racecar that may be fine since you're gonna rebuild the engine fairly often anyways. I guess this is just a case where we must say "to each their own". I would rather spend the $200 on upgrading to the vtec thermo and housing and install the oil squirts.
I also have some numbers for the different pistons for the h23 vtec.
h23 pistons= 9.3:1
h22 pistons= 10.4:1
Type S pistons= 11.5:1
jdm h22 pistons= 11:1
I also have some numbers for the different pistons for the h23 vtec.
h23 pistons= 9.3:1
h22 pistons= 10.4:1
Type S pistons= 11.5:1
jdm h22 pistons= 11:1
DesertNightEagle
Senior Member
i'm doing this h22a1head/h23a1block swap right now and all my parts are in the shop, all i got to say is if you plan to add a turbo with this swap watch out which cams you use in the head cuz i bought crower cams stage 2 a's(cost me $700) and on the site it makes it seem that they are for turbo applications but with stock idle lobes(for emissions), but the shop that is porting my head says that the cams are too radical for a turbo due to large overlap. he said it would either make a shit load of power or detonate, and i'm not taking chances so i'll just go nitrous instead of boost. oh and just if you were wondering for the boring/sleeves/honing cost me $400 for that and i had to replace parts like piston rings, thrust washers, and bearings and some other stuff cost me a little over $500. porting is cost me $900. the head it self you can find for $400 with out a valve cover/distributor/intake manifold at hmotorsonline.com, his service is decent but at times hard to get a hold of. if you have anymore questions email me at.....
desertnighteagle@aol.com
desertnighteagle@aol.com
racerx h23
Member
Why not get adjustable cam gears and change the overlap???
dohcvtec_accord
WRX Sellout
If he does that, then what's going to happen when he's not on the VTEC lobes? :roll:
racerx h23
Member
I can admit, I don't know. Please enlighten me.
