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Head flow limiting an all motor LS?

Discussion in 'HYBRID -> EG-EK / DC' started by UNDR8D, Jan 26, 2008.

  1. UNDR8D

    UNDR8D ...has a job!

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    I have a 95 B18B. I am going all motor. I am just curious, I have heard bad things about the head flow capacity of these, therefore, from experience, what is the upward HP ceiling of this head without a PNP job? I would like to make no more than 200 whp. Probably more in the 175-190 range in a stripped down EJ with no power steering or A/C. Just enough to beat up on factory mustang gt's and the like. The build would look something like this: I/H/E/TB wrapped + Hondata gasket, P30's w/ ARP hardware, Crower 404's (if they'll clear the P30's) with springs/retainers w/ adj. gears,. 255lph in tank, maybe 440's, and a tune (S200?). And don't tell me to do an LS/V or I will find where you live and cut you. I know all about it and I want to stay non-vtec. Thanks!
     
  2. UNDR8D

    UNDR8D ...has a job!

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    Cams and a compression bump aren't real modifications?
     
  3. YBLEGAL

    YBLEGAL Regular Member w/ Cheese

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    all i can provide is this:
    [​IMG]

    and from what i've read, the GSR flows better than the B18B head
     

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  4. BrutalB83

    BrutalB83 Brutal Moderator Moderator VIP

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    Um, isn't he asking for information on the LS only? He specified that he did NOT want to use a VTEC head.

    Anyway, yeah, I doubt you're gonna see 200 wheel horse without any machine work on the head. You've got to remember that the B18B is the "economy B-series". It can be a great platform for building, but straight from the factory it's not meant to perform at the same level as the B16 or B18C.

    Did you read the FAQ article about building an all-motor LS? That one didn't even make 200 whp with a port n' polish, so I really doubt you're gonna see that without it.
     
  5. YBLEGAL

    YBLEGAL Regular Member w/ Cheese

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    lol dammit yeah your right

    any reason why he can't run vtec killers on a vtec head. if he wanted. when going all motor, maximum flow helps. am i right?
     
  6. BrutalB83

    BrutalB83 Brutal Moderator Moderator VIP

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    Heh heh...no problem, just trying to clarify.
     
  7. UNDR8D

    UNDR8D ...has a job!

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    :eek:NO WAY!:eek:

    The parts I listed were merely conceptual, for discussion sake. All I'm trying to determine is the point at which you would stop making power because the head can no longer keep up, the point being that, a good PNP will run me $800-$1000. At that point I would just do the LS/V, which would cost approximately the same. So yes, I know it's lame, but I am trying to avoid the PNP. I said 200 is the upper limit. I'd be happy with 170-180 whp. And I do believe, from what I've seen in other people's builds, that the LS head can support those numbers...

    As far as VTEC, I do not dislike it. I just didn't want all these idiot coming on going, "yah bro, jus do tha LS/V swap, flow craaazy sick, v-tec for lyf!"
     
  8. K2e2vin

    K2e2vin Senior Member

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    I think ~180whp is possible with good headwork, cams, etc. There are some guys with 170whp D16's with some off-the-shelf parts, homemade ITB's or carbs, headwork, and good header, so I'd assume the LS head flows just as well if not higher than those(the LS valves are 1mm bigger on the intake side and like 2mm larger on the exhaust side).
     
  9. YBLEGAL

    YBLEGAL Regular Member w/ Cheese

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    face it, all motor costs more for less power. if spending 1000 on a head job doesnt sound good to you, and you want around 200whp, why not run a little boost to achieve your goal. you can probably get a used turbo, and all the turbo accessories for 1000 or less. A good tune for another ~500.

    but i dont know what your situation is, why you want NA.
     
  10. UNDR8D

    UNDR8D ...has a job!

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    I don't really have a good reason not to boost it. In fact, I contemplated it thoroughly for quite a while. I guess, I'm just trying to keep things simple and reliable. I know turbo systems can be reliable, but, I don't want to get into that right now. I just sold a framed minitruck. I need simplicity for a while. Here's a better question. I know PNP isn't that complicated. I'd rather do a ton of research, spend $200 on tools, and do it myself. I know plenty of people who have done their own PNP work. I bought my S80 trans from a guy with a turbod b18c who had done his own headwork with his father after they got it back from the machine shop and didn't like what they had done. Thoughts?
     
  11. UNDR8D

    UNDR8D ...has a job!

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    I dunno, I suppose I'm pretty open to different ideas. THe LS/V actually doesn't sound so bad. I mean if you have to remove the head anyway...
     
  12. K2e2vin

    K2e2vin Senior Member

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    Your own PnP should be fine; just don't take out too much material. I recommend you find a spare Honda head to practice on. There's some good writeups on the internet and you can look at pictures from Endyn and JGE.

    Try to retrofit a LS valve cover onto the VTEC head. lol.
     
  13. YBLEGAL

    YBLEGAL Regular Member w/ Cheese

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    nothing beats a reputable shop with a flowbench. period.

    unless you have a flowbench AND a few heads to practice on...no way. you can make the flow worse.

    and lots of experts say dont let them touch it unless they have a serdi.
     
  14. UNDR8D

    UNDR8D ...has a job!

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    That's funny. I actually laughed out loud. BWUHAHAHAH! Seriously...

    I probably wouldn't do my own PNP. What is a Serdi? I might just save pennies for a B18C head...or just wait unitl next semester for more student loans...
     
  15. UNDR8D

    UNDR8D ...has a job!

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