Heal and toe shifting

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heel toe

I don't understand what you are trying to say.

Corner lies ahead, still at full throttle, commence braking, downshift (blip throttle with right foot slide into next lower gear, repeate if necessary), trail brake and turn in, back on throttle in the proper gear. Regardless of what foot you use to brake the car with and how you rev match, this is done in the same order, same place. Heel toe has nothing to do with cornering speeds; either on entry or exit. Hell you can just stand on the brakes, and drop the thing into whatever gear you need to get to once you slow down enough and it won't make much if any differnece in exit speed. For the record, while you are braking as hard as possible, the tranny is doing nothing to slow you down, even at higher RPMs the brakes' stopping power prevents the tranny and associated engine braking effect from slowing the car.

It isn't hard to LFB and downshift without the clutch. You just gotta have some finesse with the throttle blip and the gear lever.

LF Braking and blipping the throttle makes the car lunge how can you blip the throttle if you are in gear?? 1st! 2nd, of course left foot braking makes a difference i use it every day just for good practice but it makes tremendous difference when setting up for a corner while down shifting!! makes your weight shift more subtle and makes it easier to late break, also allows you to shift into first gear for those extra slow corners therefore more stable why would rally drivers and in fact any racer with a clutch use this technique???? plus clutchless shifting gets your wheels locked up (bad for weight shift) not to mention f**ks up your tranny do you actually own a manual gearbox??
 
No, I don't. I made all of this up and don't even know how to drive a manual transmission. I'm a 16 year old and wish to be as skillful and knowledgeable as you are some day.

If you had any sort of technique you would understand that you can easily and very smoothly downshift without the clutch and not upset the car. To do that it requires a bit of throttle input in order to unload the gear faces from each other inside the transmission. Nothing is upset, no gears are crunched, and I exit the corner faster than when shuffling my feet around to right foot brake + clutch with the left. This isn't for every corner either. Sometimes it works better though.

It's called being creative. Fast guys are creative, slow guys stick to things that they are taught and never grow or try new (maybe scary at first) things. Maybe what works for me and my set of skills and techniques won't work for you, but don't come and insult me because you don't approve. Mid 1.05s at Pocono North on street tires in a ~110 wheel HP car doesn't happen by accident.
 
The Great Ayrton

No, I don't. I made all of this up and don't even know how to drive a manual transmission. I'm a 16 year old and wish to be as skillful and knowledgeable as you are some day.

If you had any sort of technique you would understand that you can easily and very smoothly downshift without the clutch and not upset the car. To do that it requires a bit of throttle input in order to unload the gear faces from each other inside the transmission. Nothing is upset, no gears are crunched, and I exit the corner faster than when shuffling my feet around to right foot brake + clutch with the left. This isn't for every corner either. Sometimes it works better though.

It's called being creative. Fast guys are creative, slow guys stick to things that they are taught and never grow or try new (maybe scary at first) things. Maybe what works for me and my set of skills and techniques won't work for you, but don't come and insult me because you don't approve. Mid 1.05s at Pocono North on street tires in a ~110 wheel HP car doesn't happen by accident.

1st no insults were made directed to u if offense was taken maybe truth hurts, but the late great Ayrton Senna da silva possibly the best driver F1 has ever seen (Honda Racing' 92) and he thought heel and toe was a damn great technique to use on his NSX Type R test run round Suzuka Raceway and also his F1 Car So forgive me if i'm wrong but he was definately was faster than you and don't know you but i'd bet my chips on Ayrton being more creative than you for sure and i've never seen him clutch less shift in any of the videos of him driving, in fact havn't seen tommi makinen, petter solberg, colin, l8 richard burns or any of the other rally boys do it, i,m starting to think you are the only one who uses this technique! no offense , btw where r u from i'm from Gibraltar
 
Heel and Toe is an essential driving technique, it hard to imagine racing without it unless you have a BMW with SMG or the new Ferraris where they have the F1 paddle shift, you don’t need heel and toe coz the engine will be revved up when downshifting.
Now the fella saying that you don’t need it and he just push the throttle and shift down without a clutch is absolutely an idiot, and if he is doing that I bet he changes his gearbox every month or he is just driving on play station. The idea that you use it for everyday driving is great for 2 reasons, you reduce the wear and tear on you tranny and you make it a second nature so you don’t have to thing about it when racing, now if you wanna be more of a purist, I think its worth it to learn double clutching where you further reduce the wear and tear on your synchro mesh. In the mean time just keep practicing heal and toe, thats all about the fun driving a stick shift right ?;)
 
Heel and Toe is an essential driving technique, it hard to imagine racing without it unless you have a BMW with SMG or the new Ferraris where they have the F1 paddle shift, you don’t need heel and toe coz the engine will be revved up when downshifting.
Now the fella saying that you don’t need it and he just push the throttle and shift down without a clutch is absolutely an idiot, and if he is doing that I bet he changes his gearbox every month or he is just driving on play station. The idea that you use it for everyday driving is great for 2 reasons, you reduce the wear and tear on you tranny and you make it a second nature so you don’t have to thing about it when racing, now if you wanna be more of a purist, I think its worth it to learn double clutching where you further reduce the wear and tear on your synchro mesh. In the mean time just keep practicing heal and toe, thats all about the fun driving a stick shift right ?;)


See now, this is what pises me off. Thoughtless people throwing that idiot word around. Reading comprehension is key here. If you read my posts, I merely mentioned that it is possible to downshift without the clutch in certain situations. I never said heel-toe wasn't useful or viable. I do use the side of my foot to rev match while downshifting and using the clutch. If I can downshift without the clutch, using my left foot for braking, I can get back on the throttle quicker and use the brakes to balance the car rather than being slower mid corner and diddling the gas to balance the car. What if your clutch fails during a race? Is it better to posses the skills required to finish a race without panicking or is it better just to quit the race and come to the pits? Again, closed mindedness does not promote fast driving. Welcome to Hondaswap, nice 1st post.

To the person who says they have never seen Solberg or any other rally guy use this, well then you haven't ever seen any rally guys driving anything with an H pattern gearbox (dogbox or otherwise). They all left foot brake almost exclusively, with a gearbox that can be downshifted clutchless they will obviously use that technique since overlapping throttle and brake is usually faster in any form of motorsport. Look at some logs of M. Schumacher vs. the great Senna or pretty much anyone else. They are very similar however Schumi is back on the throttle suuner and overlaps 100% throttle with light braking fairly regularly. At any rate I'm an idiot, a slow driver, don't have a manual gearbox in my fleet, and I'm sure other things.
 
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Shummi was never faster than Senna when he was racing now THAT is a fact oh And i went to two world Rally Championship finals when the late Richard Burns won the world championship in Cardiff Wales, and this month i am going to Jerez Spain to watch our f1 team to practice in their new team clolours Green............... if i can i'll ask them about your clutchless technique, don't get pissed off dude hehe

p.s. wow you have a fleet of cars? how many?
 
Double clutching i thought that was done on really old cars and trucks why would you use that as a racing technique? does it make you faster?
 
What do you call it when I can do the heel toe technique without turning my foot at all? My feet are wide enough to be able to do it by just sliding my foot to the left edge of the pedal.

I dont see how it makes the handeling of the car better or whatever he originally wrote, but it definately helps with late braking and getting the power down immediately. :)
 
Shummi was never faster than Senna when he was racing now THAT is a fact oh And i went to two world Rally Championship finals when the late Richard Burns won the world championship in Cardiff Wales, and this month i am going to Jerez Spain to watch our f1 team to practice in their new team clolours Green............... if i can i'll ask them about your clutchless technique, don't get pissed off dude hehe

p.s. wow you have a fleet of cars? how many?

jesus, you dont have to attack a guy just because you feel inadequate because you cant spell colors right (hell, colours is fine, but drop an o somewhere),

His clutchless technique does work, i said it works because i can do it, its not hard. It all depends on the situation. You might want to avoid asking the f1 guys, i mean sure they can drive a stick, and im sure they can out drive me any time they want, but there is a HUGE difference between F1 and SCCA.

When you are in a track car (sports compact or otherwise) driving a H pattern gear box, things change. How you normally approach a turn, the speed at which you do so, and the angle of your vehicle. When you go out to a track and you see a guy blipping is brakes 3 or 4 times before he actually hits a corner....its scary, and i'd put dollars to donuts that youre one of those people. Someone who likes to talk a lot about something he's SEEN done but not actually done himself. Well I'll tell you this, i took my prelude to the last bus lot AutoX at Texas MS, and lateapex is right. I cut nearly a second off my time doing it his way. Im much more COMFORTABLE heel-toeing, but in the end, LFBing into a corner and using the throttle as my clutch was MUCH faster. I didnt scratch gears and i still drive the prelude every day. You can say what you want, but it does work.

Now please, go play with your hotwheels and watch the speed channel. Leave the racing to us.
 
so im new at all this and im curious what heeltoe shifting is and also, i have heard of double clutching but i have absolutely no idea what it is or how to do it. im just curious.
 
to start, heel toe shifting works as follows:

Your commin up to a 90 degree corner. Instead of hitting the brake and just turning into the corner, you hit the brake, hit the clutch, blip the throttle to match the revs, down shift, let out the clutch, and repeat as necessary. That will keep the revs up allow you to use the power as you need it.

As for double clutching, its similar to above. Basically older transmissions didnt really have syncros, so when you down shifted, you had to push in the clutch, pull out of the gear, blip the throttle and put it into the gear you want. Basically YOU are doing the work of the syncros to minimize the wear on your tranny.
 
i coulda sworn i saw a clip of tommi makinen saying that he only used the clutch at the start of the race. it was pointless after that.
 
Personal prefference.
If you tried them all and you find one to be the most rewarding, or has the least opportunity cost to you, then that style is vievew best by you. That's why there's 'different' styles ou there.
 
jesus, you dont have to attack a guy just because you feel inadequate because you cant spell colors right (hell, colours is fine, but drop an o somewhere),

col-our
N&V Cheifly british
variant of color
thats straight out of the dictionary you might want to read a dictionay when you get your legs untangled from your pedals, i come from gibraltar southern europe and we actually have corners and 100 ft drops instead of straight roads so i dont have to do auto cross to practice my left foot braking and HEEL and toe as well as other techniques like lift off oversteer and learning to use understeer, dude i'm not trying to diss anyone like you are, just don't like people giving wrong info to someone who might go and break his Tranny ,
clutchless shifting is not left foot breaking it is not the same, rally boys only shift without a clutch up gears not down and that is because they have straight cut gears in their sequential gearboxes yes LFB is good but not used in the same circumstances as H&T, H&T is used as an Extremely late breaking technique to avoid upsetting your weightshift too much, on the other hand LFB is used when you don't have to change gear before a corner but instead want to nail it LFB is used to kill off understeer,or you could try a new one here for you reikoshea try H&T as you enter a corner but break harder than usual to create oversteer then as you apex stamp the throttle and understeer away from the apex and hey faster cornering although timing is hard and it is hard on the tires it is faster but on sharper corners or straight through roundabouts faster than the other two, and btw i'm 26 used to play with matchbox toy cars (Mazda FC RX-7:favourite toy car at the time) much better than hotwheels, you should come to gibraltar fun to drive up the rock and loads of vtecs around!
 
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