in the old days, if you couldnt contribute to society, you would be dead.
don't really understand what was wrong with that
You guys say that until it is someone you love.
Healthcare bill upheld
- Thread starter Briansol
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You guys say that until it is someone you love.
I'm with Cel. The people "worth saving" will be taken in by their family/community. Those that suck at life, well good riddance.
Do you guys realize what some medical procedures cost? 95% of people don't have the means to pay for these things. Sorry Cel, but trading in your Mustang II isn't going to pay for your Dad's bypass surgery (generalizing here, not meaning to offend). My best friends Dad died of brain cancer a few month's ago. Luckly he had good insurance. I'd hardly say that Gary sucked at life.
Celerity
Well-Known Member
I'm alive due to the better graces of high end care. I practically grew up at the Children's hospital in Boston.
I also grew up in the better graces of the Shriner's and Easter Seals. Because insurance wouldn't cover what I needed as a kid.
About $350,000 of shit is packed into my horrible, demented body.
And I'm here to say, that I'm on both sides of this equation.
Insurance companies are the devil. Doctors and medical industries are the devil. The numbers are so high right now that logic suffocates. $700 to pull a tooth ? Really ? That sounds a bit high.
insurance promises to cover you for a $20,000 operation when you're 6 months into a policy ? Hardly.They don't even cover a simple procedure. Insurance fights you every step of the way, until you get into the higher tiered plans (Where you're giving them more money over the duration than the surgery will typically cost)
Insurance companies DO NOT EVER LOSE. That's why they are so rich. It's a fools bet.
Now, we are required to play this game ? Yah, Not this guy, I'll tell you what.
I also grew up in the better graces of the Shriner's and Easter Seals. Because insurance wouldn't cover what I needed as a kid.
About $350,000 of shit is packed into my horrible, demented body.
And I'm here to say, that I'm on both sides of this equation.
Insurance companies are the devil. Doctors and medical industries are the devil. The numbers are so high right now that logic suffocates. $700 to pull a tooth ? Really ? That sounds a bit high.
insurance promises to cover you for a $20,000 operation when you're 6 months into a policy ? Hardly.They don't even cover a simple procedure. Insurance fights you every step of the way, until you get into the higher tiered plans (Where you're giving them more money over the duration than the surgery will typically cost)
Insurance companies DO NOT EVER LOSE. That's why they are so rich. It's a fools bet.
Now, we are required to play this game ? Yah, Not this guy, I'll tell you what.
Maybe we should just all pay a .004% sales tax to make medical school free for those keeping a 3.5 gpa or better... that way anyone who wants to be a doctor can do so without raking up 500,000 in student loans and thus won't require a stupid salary to live.
And at the same time, limit liability lawsuits to 10,000.
heatlhcare solved.
And at the same time, limit liability lawsuits to 10,000.
heatlhcare solved.
The health care system is fucked. I pay 250 a month for my own policy and I don't go to the doctor. Its basically there incase something happens. My fiance pays over 500 a month for her cobra policy and she is under 30. She is still unemployed. The 750 between us is more than my condo's mortgage, condo fees, and almost my monthly property tax payment. I think it is too god damn over priced.
I had carpel tunnel surgery 6 years ago. Price of surgery without insurance would have been close to 7000. Price with insurance about 650, thats what my insurance's negotiated rate was. I paid a small deductible. Relatively simple surgery, out patient. Took him less than 15 minutes start to finish. Health care is just so unbelievably expensive.
I had carpel tunnel surgery 6 years ago. Price of surgery without insurance would have been close to 7000. Price with insurance about 650, thats what my insurance's negotiated rate was. I paid a small deductible. Relatively simple surgery, out patient. Took him less than 15 minutes start to finish. Health care is just so unbelievably expensive.
^ Yes indeed, the Health Care system in the US has problems and now the entity that administrates Social Security, Medicare, the VA Hospital System, and of course our massive national debt has stepped in and taken it over...... Going from bad to worse is the first thing that comes to mind.
I'll never understand this. If you and your fiance put that money into a medical savings account, you'd be able to pay for most medical expenses, or if something major happened you could use it as a down payment on a low interest loan to pay it off. Then, if you stay healthy, you still have all that money. $750 a month adds up pretty fucking quickly.
found this as an outline of some crap in the bill
• Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!
• Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!
• Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)
• Page 42: The "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.
• Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.
• Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.
• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
• Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)
• Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.
• Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)
• Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens
• Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.
• Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.
• Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No "judicial review" is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.
• Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.
• Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.
• Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.
• Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll
• Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll
• Page 167: Any individual who doesn’t' have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.
• Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).
• Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.
• Page 203: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." Yes, it really says that.
• Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected."
• Page 241: Doctors: no matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)
• Page 253: Government sets value of doctors' time, their professional judgment, etc.
• Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.
• Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.
• Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!
• Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.
• Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.
• Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!
• Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.
• Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on "community" input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.
• Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.
• Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc.
• Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.
• Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).
• Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?
• Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.
• Page 425: Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.
• Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.
• Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient's health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.
• Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.
• Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.
• Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.
• Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.
• Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services
• Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!
• Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!
• Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)
• Page 42: The "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.
• Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.
• Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.
• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
• Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)
• Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.
• Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)
• Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens
• Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.
• Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.
• Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No "judicial review" is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.
• Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.
• Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.
• Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.
• Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll
• Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll
• Page 167: Any individual who doesn’t' have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.
• Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).
• Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.
• Page 203: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." Yes, it really says that.
• Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected."
• Page 241: Doctors: no matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)
• Page 253: Government sets value of doctors' time, their professional judgment, etc.
• Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.
• Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.
• Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!
• Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.
• Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.
• Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!
• Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.
• Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on "community" input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.
• Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.
• Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc.
• Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.
• Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).
• Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?
• Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.
• Page 425: Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.
• Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.
• Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient's health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.
• Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.
• Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.
• Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.
• Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.
• Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services
well, now that romney has come out and said if elected he will shut this down, he may have a chance. its making me second guess my non vote.
Except this is Romneycare....
im open for ideas on how there may be a legitimate way to actually fight this tooth and nail.
romney says he will repeal it as first act as president.
im not a romney fan, but if he does follow through with it, he will get my vote.
i hope he picks up obamas home refi plan.
Those 2 issues im torn on.
And frankly, long term, the house refi is what will cost me more money....
im not a romney fan, but if he does follow through with it, he will get my vote.
i hope he picks up obamas home refi plan.
Those 2 issues im torn on.
And frankly, long term, the house refi is what will cost me more money....
