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Help, Ignition? Timing? New Cams Installed

Discussion in 'Engine Building' started by B16, Mar 8, 2003.

  1. B16

    B16 Super Moderator VIP

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    hello, i just installed my skunk2 stage1 cams today, everything went well, but for some reason when driving, between 4,000 and 5,000 rpm the car looses almost all power. i'll step on the gas, and its as if i'm not giving it any gas. i know my throttle is opening, because my vafc shows it, also i notice the manifold pressure goes to 0 when this happens. i get the feeling its the ignition somewhere. I checked the timing and it is ok, the intake cam is at 0deg. and the exhaust cam is at +2deg (per skunk2's instructions). i replaced the rotor and cap because the rotor was loose and i thought that was it, but its still doing it. i know its nothing clogging my exuast because i pulled it off and drove it and experienced the same things. it is somewhat intermittant, but most of the time it does this, if i'm real smooth on the throttle i can almost not notice it, but if i punch it, it does nothing but climb very very very very
    (did i mention very?) slowly, until around 5K then it picks back up, then vtec comes in at 5.5K and it seems ok.... also, when going downhill in gear, i go to give it gas, and it goes nowhere, and seems worse than when driving on flat/uphill. any suggestions would be great! thank you.
     
  2. pills_PMD

    pills_PMD Super Moderator

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    i'm SURE everything was set to TDC and your ignition timing is at 16*??

    did you alter your cam timing at all? or are they at 0,0
     
  3. B16

    B16 Super Moderator VIP

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    yes, i'm sure everything was set at TDC, i have the distro turned all the way retarded right now, and it still seems too advanced. the white lines on either side of the red line, what do those mean? i can't find in the helms what deg. those are, i know the red one is for 16 BTDC. i dont know why the timing seems so far off, i know i checked it properly, jumping the service connector while setting the timing. not too sure about the timing light i was using, i'm going to try and use another one tomorrow.
    EDIT:
    the intake is 0 exhaust is +2 per skunk2's directions.
     
  4. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    try bumping your vtec engagement a little higher. CTR cams should be around 5500-ish
     
  5. pills_PMD

    pills_PMD Super Moderator

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    my VTEC is at 4500 rpm as per my dyno tuning.
     
  6. B16

    B16 Super Moderator VIP

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    ok, bring on the bashing!!
    apparantly i had set everything as if the red mark was TDC, instead of the white one. everything was 16 degrees off... DOH! i set it back and set the timing, everything works wonderful now... those skunk2's have nice pull to them :p

    stupid me

    :bash:
     
  7. pills_PMD

    pills_PMD Super Moderator

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    ahahhahaha :)

    anything noticably better than the CTR?
     
  8. B16

    B16 Super Moderator VIP

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    noticeable from about 7500 - 9000, it gets to 9K a lot quicker now. hopefully in a few weeks here i'll hit the dyno again, i was putting 165 whp with the CTR's, i've since added 64mm TB and skunk2 intake mani and aem fpr. it will be interesting to see what the gains really are.
     
  9. pills_PMD

    pills_PMD Super Moderator

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    what valvetrain do you have that you rev to 9K??
     
  10. B16

    B16 Super Moderator VIP

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    stock intake springs moved to the exhaust side with itr intake springs, and itr retainers all around.
     
  11. pills_PMD

    pills_PMD Super Moderator

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    wow.. you think that is safe to 9K???

    i dont' take mine past 8500. and my ctr cams stopped making power at 8250 (see dyno results) i think i need to re-adjust them since i milled the head and changed the hondata program.

    i have ctr outer valve springs and itr inners and itr retainers all around and the intake side moved to the exhaust side as well
     
  12. B16

    B16 Super Moderator VIP

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    its been safe so far, hehe. i had taken my ctr's up to 9K before, they can take it. according to my dyno my ctr's started to fall off around 8000 even. however these pull past 8500.
     
  13. pills_PMD

    pills_PMD Super Moderator

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    i'm not worried about the CTRs handling it.. its the valve springs and retainer setup. i wouldn't do that very often if i were you... they are chromoloy retainers... not titanium.
    and my CTRs starting falling off at 8250 according to my dyno
     
  14. B16

    B16 Super Moderator VIP

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    i know the cams themselves can take it, i was referring to the springs/retainers, i suppose i should have been more clear. i'm completely aware of what they are made up of, and i know others who use the skunk2 stage1's on totally stock b16 valvetrain and take it up to 9K. i do not take it up to 9K that often, no reason too. skunk2 states you can go up to 8400 on the stock b16 valvetrain.
     
  15. pills_PMD

    pills_PMD Super Moderator

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    well thats good news... i guess i can try to make a little more power next dyno run w/ the ctrs

    i'll try to adjust them to make power higher.. i've seen people make power up to 8600-8700 w/ ctrs
     
  16. B16

    B16 Super Moderator VIP

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    really? damn.. what intake manifold are you using? i felt that the reason why i wasn't making as much power up top with the ctrs was because of my intake mani and TB. here is my sheet for reference.
    dyno sheet
    and now that i look at it again, apparantly i was falling off at around 7600 rpm, which i thought was pretty low for ctrs.
    when i swapped the skunk2 intake mani in and the 64mm TB, i felt like my top end had more power, according to the butt dyno.
     
  17. pills_PMD

    pills_PMD Super Moderator

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    i'm using an itr intake manifold and throttle body.
    i made 160.4 whp on a mustang dyno. on a dynojet that would be 175+ whp

    Go here

    that's my index pg. then click on dyno results and read the mustang dyno vs. dynojet article. it explains why they measure differently.

    a mustang dyno is a true loading dyno. you have a constant resistance against you.
    the d ynojet you just overcome the polar moment of inertia then it's nothing but straight measurement. a mustang dyno has a force acting against you at all times
     
  18. B16

    B16 Super Moderator VIP

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    why do the dynos measure so differently? that doesn't seem right..
    btw: broken link
     
  19. pills_PMD

    pills_PMD Super Moderator

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    edited teh above post

    try that.
     
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