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Help me out, fellas.... ZC SOHC??

Discussion in 'Engine Building' started by Bitchin LS1, Mar 18, 2010.

  1. Bitchin LS1

    Bitchin LS1 New Member

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    Okay, so I have a project in mind that will require a lightweight engine and transmission spitting about 260 - 300 horsepower to the wheels. Bright idea, use a Honda. So I pick up a SOHC Honda ZC motor and tranny. Great start, except I'm a V-8 guy, and I have no damn idea what goes on inside this cute little thing the Japanese market as an engine. I am absolutely willing to admit my ABSOLUTE ignorance when it comes to Honda motors. I can get you 900 ponies out of a Chevy LS1, but this ain't my bag. Someone help me out a bit? I've been doing a bit of research and apparently a ZC SOHC is a glorified D16-A6. I've heard that the pistons out of a Suzuki Vitara work well for forced induction because the ring-lands are thicker. Other than that, I get a bunch of websites trying to sell me toasters and cam-covers. Any intel would be invaluable. Thanks guys.
     
  2. ricksautomotive

    ricksautomotive honda dealer tech

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    youl need roller bearing pushrods too bro haha
     
  3. ricksautomotive

    ricksautomotive honda dealer tech

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    j/k but seriously, what kinda ride you gonna put that cute engine in? i'm a V-8 guy myself but i'm also a honda tech
     
  4. Bitchin LS1

    Bitchin LS1 New Member

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    Well...

    Realistically it's going to be getting boxed up as tightly as possible and stuffed into the ass end of a tube-steel chassis. Strap a pair of racing seats over some unequal-length double wishbone suspension and see how many lateral G's I can yank on it. A friend of mine dropped a challenge for a vehicle under 1700 lbs, 0-60 in 3.3 or better, 60-0 in 75 ft, and 1 lateral break-away G. I' up to it, but the engine needs to be perfect.
     
  5. Bitchin LS1

    Bitchin LS1 New Member

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    Ha ha, tell me bout it. Maybe some MSD ignition and a compression ratio brushing 12.8 : 1. That's the performance engine world I come from. This shit is all new to me. If my father ever found out I was trying to build a Honda engine... I'd get my nose broken...
     
  6. ricksautomotive

    ricksautomotive honda dealer tech

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    well if it aint in an import maybe he would let it slide haha damn i have a few ideas for you to win if thats all you wanna do. i think a basic honda engine like yours with a 100 shot of nos would be enough. can you use nos?
     
  7. Bitchin LS1

    Bitchin LS1 New Member

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    Nope. Forced induction is cool, but Nitrous is a no-no. Has to be full-time power reliable to 40,000 miles. Engine can't be catastrophic after that. Basically a long-haul engine build. Like I said, 260-300 horses should be sufficient, I just don't know how to squeeze that outta this little ass Honda.
     
  8. ricksautomotive

    ricksautomotive honda dealer tech

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    power to weight ratio will be on your side with a little honda like yours. now you can use a saturn motor out of a red line car. theyre supersharged and little 4- cylinder engines too. or do you have to use that engine?
     
  9. Bitchin LS1

    Bitchin LS1 New Member

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    Not necessarily. I dropped 700 bucks cash for a 1990 Honda Civiv DX 4-door. The body is so close to perfect, it's almost creepy. The engine is a SOHC ZC that has been switched over to MPFI and it's lighter than your average 40oz. (without the paper bag) so I figured if I could get that to work, may as well. I know the engine you're talking about. It's the Ecotec 2.0 LNF. They came in the 2009 Cobalt SS too. The problem with that is as soon as you stamp "Ecotec" on something, people seem to think that the crankshaft is cast in .999 pure platinum or something... The cheapest one of those I could locate was $2,100 out of a totalled Cobalt. Seems rather un-economical really.
     
  10. ricksautomotive

    ricksautomotive honda dealer tech

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    so you gave it a thought already i see. so whats your budget? and how much you have left? d you have a time limit too?
     
  11. Bitchin LS1

    Bitchin LS1 New Member

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    My budget is basically whatever I feel like throwing at it, which between you and I... I'm willing to spend a bit but if I can't sell this dingleberry of a go-kart and get my money back, I start to lose interest. Time is basically unlimited. As long as I can focus on it I guess.
     
  12. Bitchin LS1

    Bitchin LS1 New Member

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    That being said, people are willing to pay pretty descent for 0-60 in 3.3 so I figure if I can stick to 8 grand or less, I'll prolly survive, economically speaking.
     
  13. ricksautomotive

    ricksautomotive honda dealer tech

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    do you have any fabrication skills like welding or machining? how bout engineering skills? if you do i would think you have a great chance at your goal for under 8 grand. if you dont have these skills then i think you have a greater challenge to meet. personally i like a good challenge and i like doing what they say cant be done. have you thought about your carts center of gravity for the lateral test you have to accomplish?
     
  14. Bitchin LS1

    Bitchin LS1 New Member

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    Yeah, I can cut and weld but I've never built a tube frame/chassis before. This outta be interesting.
     
  15. ricksautomotive

    ricksautomotive honda dealer tech

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    i hav a lot of design ideas if you want to look en over. it wii require a lot of tubing but it can be done. you will also need a tubing notcher, a drill press, a 10-ton H press, TIG welder, 40-amp plasma cutter (minimum) and a lathe. you may be able to sub0out the lathe work to a macine shop though since there isnt too much. then if you plan to build an aluminum sheet metal body you will need a sheet metal shear and break. let me know if youre interested.
     
  16. Battle Pope

    Battle Pope New Member

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    Getting that kind of power out of a single-cam will require forced induction, upgraded fuel system, a really really good tune and probably upgraded internals. 300 wheel horsepower isn't a small feat with a single cam.

    You probably should have done some research, B16s can be had for pretty cheap these days and would serve you better than what you've got. Anything dual-cam would have been a better choice for long-term.
     
  17. ricksautomotive

    ricksautomotive honda dealer tech

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    you know you could go for the 300 horsepower mark just to say you did it. that would be cool alone. but realistically, you have an 8000 dollar budget, the car has to be 1700 pounds, and lets just throw a number out there like 180 horsepower with 175 foot pounds of torque from your motor. that torque number as in power to weight ratio is like 1 to 9.71. for every foot pound of torque you need to move 9.71 pounds of weight. numbers like that will give you impressive results for you performance goals
     
  18. Bitchin LS1

    Bitchin LS1 New Member

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    Well I have a MIG welder but that's all i got off of that list. I'd definitely be interested in looking at some of your designs thought.
     
  19. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    The SOHC ZC is a D16A6 with a hotter cam. 10 degrees more intake duration, 5 degrees more intake/exhaust overlap if I remember correctly. It's been a while since I had my cam measured.

    The Vitara piston combo works well. You have to get shorter rods because the pistons have a taller compression height than the stock pistons. B16 rods work well here. I forget if you have to machine the big ends of the rods down to a thinner size to clear the crank journals though- get a set and measure them out. Stock rods will work if you can tune well without detonation.

    That combo plus a well matched turbo can put down 300whp easily. I don't know that you'll want to drive the power curve that comes from 300whp on a 1.6L in the corners though unless you can get the torque curve to be smooth... or maybe just don't corner while building boost.

    Tuning- there are a lot of free options out there since you're in a non-OBD car. I forget the names of the non-OBD tuning options, but the OBD1 programs typically used are Uberdata and Crome. Hondata is really nice (I used one) but you have to pay.

    Suspension- get the widest tires possible, decent coilovers (can be had under $700) and a fat rear sway bar with a brace integrated into it to prevent rear subframe tearout. Suspension Techniques makes a good one for not too much cash- hopefully it fit the EF (4th generation Civic, what you have). Depending on your sway bar setup, spring rates work well with the rear at 50% of the front to matched.

    Polyurethane bushings are cheap- Energy Suspension master kit is under $150, but installation is a pain.

    If you start cutting into the sedan, 1700 pounds ought to be a piece of cake.
     
  20. ricksautomotive

    ricksautomotive honda dealer tech

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    are you using a car as a chassis? or are you just going to build a tubed steroid fed go-kart buggy thingy? all my designs for a car that gets chopped up for your build would be way expensive and i dont know if there are any cars on here that people have built that will pull a 1-G on the lateral test, do 0-60 in 3.3 seconds AND stop from 60-0 in 75 feet. and while there are alot of awsome builds on here and there may be some that could do these things...just incase i missed them, i doubt the builders did all for it for under 8 grand. so are you going tube car? or a modified chopped up sedan honda?
     
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