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help with swap

Discussion in 'HYBRID -> BA-BB /CA-CD' started by dave_255, Nov 18, 2003.

  1. dave_255

    dave_255 Member

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    alright guys im new to the site but i have some questions ok i have a 92 accord ex and i want to swap the engine to a h22. i have an automatic tran and i wanna keep it will there be any problems. will the h22 bolt on the trans with no problems. and what else will i need for the conversion. yes some people will say why not go manual it a car i use everyday and it will much easier for me . and on that question how much horsepower will i lose with auto trans. ?
     
  2. dohcvtec_accord

    dohcvtec_accord WRX Sellout

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    Your best bet would be to order a full swap with auto transmission. You can make the F-series tranny work, but it requires you to move one of the mounting studs to make it fit. The F22 tranny is geared poorly (i.e. for fuel economy and not power), and will rob you of more power than an H22 tranny will.

    But, if you order an engine with auto tranny, you'll get an engine with weaker cams and a lower power rating. However, the H22 tranny is geared much better for the engine, and won't cause you to drop out of VTEC when driving it hard.

    So you've got to decide on exactly what you want, and how much work you want to do.
     
  3. dave_255

    dave_255 Member

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    so if i decide to stick with my tranny about how much power will i lose . i would love to go with the h22 tranny but money would be the problem and installation. since i had barely just put a new tranny in my car i dont want it to go to waste. how much work would moving the mounting stud be? one last question if i go with my tranny about how much power could squeez out it on a medium budget. thanks
     
  4. ludegirl

    ludegirl Senior Member

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    For a medium budget, go with the H22 tranny. It won't cost that much more and it will make installation a lot easier and cheaper, as well as giving you the most power potential with the auto.
     
  5. sleepn_accord

    sleepn_accord Senior Member

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    I don't know where the dohcvtec_accord got his info, but the h22a w/AT's are the same motor as the h22a's w/MT.

    A big consideration (among others) is that you should get an A/T H22a because you also need the a/t throttle body. Further make sure you get the TCU! If not you won't be able to fully enjoy the h22a. Accord tcu shifts at 6250 while the h22 tcu shifts at 7200.

    The gearing between the f series and h series is noticebly different, but the the gears on the h series a/t are still longer than it's 5spd counterpart.

    I had an a/t h22a in my 93 ex and I'd pretty much keep up with my friend's 5spd h22a 91 ex accord in the 1/4 mile. But highway runs would have me several car lengths ahead of him.

    Also, be aware that you will have to get some sort of speed meter (or similar device to interupt the VSS) otherwise you'll be limited to 110-ish MPH. Currently, I haven't heard of any programs for the A/T ecu's.
     
  6. dave_255

    dave_255 Member

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    i would love to get the full swap but the tranny i have is only about 2 years old so i dont want it to go to waste and as for the throttle body are you sure i need the h series.
     
  7. dohcvtec_accord

    dohcvtec_accord WRX Sellout

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    This is not what I've been told, both by a Honda mechanic and by the shop I ordered my engine through. I've yet to see any hard proof either way.
     
  8. sleepn_accord

    sleepn_accord Senior Member

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    Yes, there is a difference in HP, but that is due to the mapping of the ECU. I mean I would be inclined to believe a honda mechanic...except that there were never any automatic h22a1's. There were automatic h22a4's. But those motors are of a different design.

    I've built several h22's (both auto and manual) and when I've examined the camshafts there's no difference that I can observe.

    But of course I may be wrong. :(
     
  9. tab

    tab Super Moderator

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    I checked into cams for H22 on a website, and they list different part numbers. You would probably only notice an off idle difference(that's just a guess.)

    Another option would be to buy the engine you want, then buy the H22 transmission seperately. I won a bid last month on Ebay for 177.50, which put the tranny at $302.50 to my door. I am sure that the H22 tranny will be much better. I have the accord tranny working in my swap, and it's too long geared. Also, like dohcvtec_accord mentioned, I have to hit over 7000 rpms on the shift between 1st and 2nd. Usually about 7500 or so to stay in VTEC coming into the next gear. The shorter geared tranny should let me stay in VTEC at a little lower rpms on the shift. Plus, the H22A tranny has LSD, and we all want that.

    The H22A auto trans swaps are quite reasonable, and I would think if the cams are different, that Honda had a good reason for it. You could buy more aggressive cams down the road. Good luck
     
  10. dave_255

    dave_255 Member

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    there is not a problem with me buying the complete swap its just like i said my accord tranny is fairly new only about two years so i dont want it to go to waste. so if i stick with my tranny will i loose alot . and the tranny you got for 177 was a auto man thats cheap.
     
  11. tab

    tab Super Moderator

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    The H22 trannies are a lot less expensive than the engine. I waited for the right deal. Sometimes, I bidding war will put that number one or two hundred dollars higher. Your accord tranny will work, but it'd be a pain in the ass to change later, especially cuz you could do it all right now. Also, your tranny will have some resale value. You could sell it, trade trannies, and not lose much money at all. My tranny has over 220,000 miles, and it is holding just fine(trust me, I beat it up.)
    I can only tell you that I believe, even at a 300 dollar loss, it's worth it to me to try and maximize my grin reflex. It's your choice. I used the F22 tranny because I was outta cash at the time. Now I'm not. ;)
     
  12. dave_255

    dave_255 Member

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    now if i go with the h22 tranny does that mean i need a new tcu computer because those are expensive or do you know where i could get one cheap and if i do need a new one will i be able to sell my old one
     
  13. tab

    tab Super Moderator

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    I don't believe so. There might be slight differences that I don't know about. The trannies are very similar. I don't know if the Prelude tranny computer tells it how or when to shift, etc. Either way, I drive mine like a manual when I'm playing, because my tranny shifts too early for the H22. That might be the difference. The prelude tranny ecu might shift at the perfect point automatically. Dunno. I have tried to find the computer for it, but the closest I've found is the H23 one. Many auto guys run those. Finding the Japanese tranny computer shouldn't be that tough, but I'm sure there'd be some searching. Auto H22's didn't come to the US in the 92-95 preludes. The Honda parts guy couldn't help me at all. Hope I helped. I don't think it's worth worrying about right away. ECU's are easy to swap.

    Your tranny ECU is probably cheap as hell at any junk yard, because auto Accords are very common. I buy almost everything on Ebay. I think your cheapest buy would be a complete auto swap, or a front clip. If you buy a complete auto swap, try getting that tranny ECU with it. Honda's shift pretty firm anyway, so it wouldn't be a worry to me. You might have to shift down to hold gears, but that's the way I drive anyway. If your tranny is low mileage, you could definitely get a few bucks for that. My buddy bought one off Ebay for 330 plus shipping. I'd say you could get at least 200 for a good tranny, H22 or not. I held out a long time to get my deal, they usually go for more. I could get you a phone number if you wanna call the company I dealt with. They were very professional, and shipped pretty quick. Major importer.

    Later
     
  14. sleepn_accord

    sleepn_accord Senior Member

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    If you want it to shift right you will have to get an h22 TCU. You might be able to get away with using the h23 tcu, but the shift point is lower (6800 I believe). The h22 tcu is 7100.

    I found my h22 tcu for $100 and it was money well spent.

    If you use your accord tcu, then you'll have to deal with the 6250 shift point (which kind of sucks because vtec kicks in at 5000-ish and you only get that small gap of power. You could manually shift it, but the does fck shit up.
     
  15. H22AdelSol

    H22AdelSol Senior Member

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    Is it just me or is anyone else wondering why you would do an engine swap to a nice big engine and put a auto tranny on it? Doesnt it kind of defeat the purpose of spending all that money. If its just your daily driver why in the hell are you putting an h22 in it? Sounds like an awful lot of money and work put into a daily driver. Please someone help me with this dilemma
     
  16. dave_255

    dave_255 Member

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    because its my daily driver and my only driver. so i would like to have some power. its alot of money but its not a crazy amount of money. i thinks its well worth the investment so therefore thats why im going to do it.
     
  17. H22AdelSol

    H22AdelSol Senior Member

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    thats understandable, i guess some ppl just prefer to not have to shift gears manualy all the time.
     
  18. accord11sec

    accord11sec Junior Member

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    im my personal opinion, for what you want it for i would just pull the head off of the f22 and have it ported, polished and rebuild the valvetrain along with maybe even a little shaving to add some compression then do injectors, fuel rail, throttlebody, and header back. with doing this you are at half the price of the h22 and havnt chopped up any wiring and are still in the same power range you are looking to get from the h22. then ofcourse you can still go with whichever transmission you decide. good luck with whichever you decide

    1/2price
    same power
    less work and hassle
     
  19. driver1

    driver1 Senior Member

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    I dont beleive the above statements are true i think you will be at well over half the cost of an h22 with those mods and still will not make the power an h22 will. also when done right there is no real chopping of wires so to speak.
     
  20. dave_255

    dave_255 Member

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    yes i think i still want to go with h22a . and thanks guys for all the input
     
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