horsepower or torque

[phunky.buddha]

Ok, good- just walked through and you weren't there. Got scared for a minute! I'm going home, no more t: on this thread.

 

[tab]

Originally posted by pills_PMD@Nov 21 2003, 10:11 AM
both wrong damnit...

Torque is the application of a force (F) acting at a radial distance (d) that tends to cause rotation...

the actual definitions of torque:

T=®(F sin(theta)) (for something not perpindicular)

T=Force * Distance

notice there is no division there...

T= Force (lb) * distance (ft) = lb*ft

Torque is the number that matters. However, one can USUALLY infer something from the torque number. Two cars with a peak torque number that are the same, at the same amount of rpms can be totally different. Hence, the H23 and the H22. H23 starts making torque quicker, but dies off faster. Because of VTEC and the huge jump at 5000 rpm, the H22 has a higher peak, and makes more power up high. What make the big difference kids, is the ability to hold that torque curve over a broad range of rpms. If, in a diesel, you make huge numbers from 1000 to 2000 rpms, then you only have 1000 rpms of working range(approximately). In a civic, the numbers may be lower, but your working range can go from 3000-8000 rpms. That's not bad. In H22's, the range is decent down low, but jumps at 5000-8000. Hella fun. H23 doesn't have the advantages or downfalls of VTEC, so it makes decent torque lower, peaks lower, but quits lower.

Of course, all of these put to the ground with different gearing makes them tough to compare. My biggest point is, horsepower is inferred from torque, it's an equation. Two motors with same torque numbers, over similar ranges, with proper gearing, should run close together. One with similar torque and higher horsepower may mean that it holds the torque curve longer. That means that it makes the same amount of power, for longer, and pulls for a long time, not just a short spurt. Just don't be wowed by a motor with high horsepower numbers. Let the runs do the talking. My Auto H22 does ok, and it's fun, but because of gearing, it's limited. Gearing and weight must be considered.

 

[dohcvtec_accord]

Originally posted by MXDesa@Nov 21 2003, 04:40 PM
Foot pounds is related to torquing something like a bolt or whatever, Pounds/Feet is related to torque of a car.

Damn, didn't you read any of this thread? THEY'RE THE SAME DAMN THING.

 

[haccord141]

Originally posted by kaishaku+Nov 21 2003, 10:50 AM-->

pissedoffsol

@Nov 21 2003, 01:09 AM
its really lb/feet.

WTF do you get this division shit from? :tardcart:

IT IS NOT DIVISION

Lets say i have 325 whp
and 450 ft/lbs of torque.

I would say "I have three-hundred and twentyfive horse power at the wheels and, four-hundred and fifty foot pounds of torque."

not: "I have three-hundred and twentyfive horse power at the wheels and, four-hundred and fifty foot divided by pounds of torque."

the ft/lbs is just the way it is written.

you need both!

and you can't have one with out the other.

 

[pills_PMD]

i think everyone knows that you say "foot pounds"
but when writing it... it clearly can't have a / which is the universal sign for division.

 

[davidbr]

No HP without Torque, no Torque without HP.
Just take 2 Engines. One reving 8000rpm with 200ft/lbs torque from 0-8000rpm and one Reving 4000rpm with 4000ft/lbs from 0-8000rpm.
HP for engine 1: (8000 * 200) / 5252 =~ 304
HP for engine 2: (4000 * 400) / 5252 =~ 304
You see, totally different torque, same HP.
So if you now gear engine 1 with 2:1, then what do you get?
4000rpm with 400ft/lbs of torque... SO! whats the differens now?
Actually there is no.
Its just about gearing, rpm and the torque curve, hp is just the combination of rpm and torque.
You got a flat torque curve and 400hp, its good, whether you got 200ft/lbs or 500ft/lbs. Its just the same.

If somebody says: "My cars got 400hp" it basically tells you nothing about the real power, if it revs 8000rpm and the full torque just comes in at 7500rpm, it would be slow. Its always just PEAK HP, it really dont has a lot to do with how the car really performs.

I hope somebody understands that

 

[ludegirl]

Originally posted by Sergey P.A.@Nov 21 2003, 06:37 AM
I am kinda confused with all this Horsepower + Torque thing,

I use to have a 95 Prelude wiht H23a1 in it, this car had 156 lb/feet and something like 160 ponies stock

The thing wiht the H23 was that it pulls strong in any gear/any speed BUT after 5000rpm's it felt like the engine itself shots down, the speed goes up, but not like before 5000rpm,

May be that's the lack of VTEC but I will tell you something that when I was racing with a VTEC Lude we basicaly were same, nobody beat nobody

The reason for that is dual stage intake manifold, which I like to call "wannabe vtec." At 4800 rpm, flapper valves open which cause more airflow.


Back on topic, i say: Honda = good Vtec = honda vtec = horsepower, therefore horsepower = good
AND
muscle car = bad big engine = muscle car big engine = torque, therefore torque = bad

hahaha, not that I 100% agree with this, torque is good too, just somthing to think about....

 

[MikeBergy]

this thread has nothing to do with your opinion of muscle cars, so who cares. Seriously, tell your machine shop how you want to motor to perform, and they'll build you what you want, or tell you how to build it.

 

[Prelude92]

What would be the single best mod to add hp and torque on an automatic im thinking exhaust but i think theres a better mod than that gives more

 

[jamesA]

Originally posted by ludegirl+Nov 24 2003, 02:53 AM-->

Sergey P.A.

@Nov 21 2003, 06:37 AM
I am kinda confused with all this Horsepower + Torque thing,

I use to have a 95 Prelude wiht H23a1 in it, this car had 156 lb/feet and something like 160 ponies stock

The thing wiht the H23 was that it pulls strong in any gear/any speed BUT after 5000rpm's  it felt like the engine itself shots down, the speed goes up, but not like before 5000rpm,

May be that's the lack of VTEC but I will tell you something that when I was racing with a VTEC Lude we basicaly were same, nobody beat nobody

The reason for that is dual stage intake manifold, which I like to call "wannabe vtec." At 4800 rpm, flapper valves open which cause more airflow.


Back on topic, i say: Honda = good Vtec = honda vtec = horsepower, therefore horsepower = good
AND
muscle car = bad big engine = muscle car big engine = torque, therefore torque = bad

hahaha, not that I 100% agree with this, torque is good too, just somthing to think about....

That's the worst reasoning I've ever heard.

Torque=the ability of an engine to do work over time=horsepower

Simple as that. You cannot have horsepower without the torque, and vice versa.

 

[dohcvtec_accord]

Originally posted by Prelude92@Nov 24 2003, 02:56 PM
What would be the single best mod to add hp and torque on an automatic im thinking exhaust but i think theres a better mod than that gives more

It depends on how you want to define a "mod". Are you talking about a bolt-on? Or is any single part or group of parts considered a "mod". In any case, an exhaust isn't going to do you that much good without opening up the rest of the breathing system of a car.

 

[BigJ]

Many of you proved my point exactly.

Torque doesn't win race, its how its used that matters which en counts for horsepower.

If you know your history, a guy made the term "horsepower" of how much work is done when a horse lifts weight using a pully system.

 

[vdubber]

I have used both torquey cars and high horsepower low torque cars. Let me tell you that torque is what wins races, not horsepower. I once had a 1981 turbo vw rabbit. we swapped a 16v 1.8l into it. this motor doesnt make shit for horse power, about 125 but it makes darn near 145 ft/lbs. considering this car weighs almost as much maybe 200 lbs less than my b16 crx, i know what im talkin bout. My vdub would kill my crx every day all day long. Its hole shot is much faster due to the amount of torque getting to the wheels. This was stock before i went and turbod it. If you wanna win a drag race go for torque. If you wanna road race but are using a torqueless b series then rev the shiat out of the motor. It all depends on your driving prefrences. I personaly am going back to the torque beasts known as vw.

 

[jiahanhao]

THIS THREAD SUCKS....

 

[sportlinecrx]

this here is the most simplified, straightforward and accurate explanation of torque and horsepower that i've seen:

http://www.car-videos.com/articles/horsepower_torque.asp

 

[xj0hnx]

Originally posted by vdubber@Nov 28 2003, 07:41 AM
I have used both torquey cars and high horsepower low torque cars. Let me tell you that torque is what wins races, not horsepower.

No, it doesn't, if it did I wouldn't have handed my friend his ass back at the finish between my civic and his cavalier, or some of the bimmers I have raced, or the civic type R I "cruised" with last night (did not hand him his ass, but he was very surprised he couldn't out run me, dead even to 90). I said it before,a fucking Mack truck has about 1160 lbs per ft (<--for the ftlbs challenged) of torque, and does the quarter in what, an hour? So no torque does not win shit, but neither does horsepower. As it has been said in this thread and the millions exactly like it, power to weight, powerband, and getting the power to the ground are what it's ALL about.

 

[Magik]

Originally posted by spectacle@Nov 21 2003, 02:03 AM
I vote for whichever one will pull my slow ass up a hill without my D15 sounding like its about to blow up.

Here Here!



Jason

 

[simplyfast]

torque always comes before horsepower, so it would be fair to say torque gets your ass off the line first.

if you have more torque than hp you can run longer gears cause the engine will be able to "power" thru them. if you have high hp with low torque you will need shorter gears and more of them.

 

[Capt. Orygun]

this pool sucks it like.

Which is your fav?

A Peanut Butter

B Jelly

 

[jiahanhao]

Originally posted by Silverchild79@Dec 9 2003, 10:48 PM
this pool sucks it like.

Which is your fav?

A Peanut Butter

B Jelly

Jelly!