how bush is screwing us part duex

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umm no,

I have a healthy level of discontent with his political views. And unlike many on this site when I disagree with him I point it out just as loudly as when I point out my disagreement with Havok, Recked, or anyone else for that matter. In short B doesn't get any "Pissedoffpreferentialtreatment"

quit playing Jerry Springer
Oh no, you're after me now...
I disagree/agree with anyone, and I don't go for the 'agreewithbee' either, it just happens that i DO agree with some of his political and or life views.
Until next time, take care of yourself, and each other.
 
then 3000+ Americans in the WTC would still be alive, and the 2000+ GI's over in the other countries wouldn't be dead

not true on both points, the "intelligence agencies" were already watching most if not all of the hijackers before the attacl happened, its on them for not putting the pieces together
phone calls can help them identify, but apparently they had already identified these people...

and 2000+ GI's? the war in iraq has absolutely nothing to do with the 2001 attack
how many GI's died in afghanistan?
you can not connect the GI deaths from the bullshit iraq war with the 9/11 attacks

and i think you people are missing the point, you can try to justify this program all you want but the fact of the matter is there are certain laws in place that would give the president this authority if he went through the proper process...
the process is there as part of the checks and balances, this is just another example of how this president doesn't give 2 shits about the constitution he should be protecting...
 
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I don't see why your pissed off or scared of this...if that system was in affect 4.5 years ago..then 3000+ Americans in the WTC would still be alive, and the 2000+ GI's over in the other countries wouldn't be dead.

Speculation, at best.

There have been proven phone calls made from the air planes to the FAA or the towers... and they still couldn't do a damn thing about it.

You'd have better luck winning the lottery than to have been spied on by big brother.

Perhaps, but the fact remains that it is an invasion of privacy. I'm pretty sure we have laws for that....

These post's on Bashing Bush, would also be the same posts if the other guy was in office...we elected him

maybe you did, but i sure didin't.

So far, how has his presidency really effected you?

Let's see.

At least 3 people i went to high school with are dead from being deployed.

Taxes went up a significant amount. Rember $1.89 packs of smokes in 98? I do. Now they are $4.20. Sure, some of it is local tax, but a lot of it is federal too.

The standard deduction went from 4200 to 5000. I didn't get a 20% raise to match, did you?

I could go on for hours, but i'm at work and don't have that time....

If the other guy was in office...it would still be the same. Complain about gas, complain about war, complain about person privacy....complain, complain, complain....Stop complaining.

Again, this is entirely speculation.
We could have been in a nuclear ww3 by now,
OR
We could have become allies with osama. you never know. and to say what it would be like is pure speculation.

..if you don't like...then do something about it.

Do what, exactly? Write my congress bitch so I can get a generic letter back from her secretary? I have power to do nothing. I'm not a soldier, I couldn't go after osama if i wanted to.

Look at me...I complain about not having enough money to buy a car, or get something nice for the wife...but I work my ass of to get it.... if I can't get it, then screw it...I didn;t need it anyway, or the wife's presents will have to wait later.

you have 5 cars and your wife has it made. lol
sure, you work your ass of to get it, but i don't see how that is "doing something about it" in the sense of bush-bashing.

Complaints don't do jack shit...ACTION does. At least Bush is sparking the action. We had a group of people try to do as much damage to us in the form of terroism...our action...was to go out and put a damn war on it and them...

Again, I ask, what is the common person, like me, to do about it?

It is impossible to get everyone to be happy and safe...if your not happy, then do something about it.

Again, I ask, what is the common person, like me, to do about it?

We are all smart, we all have our little quirks, and we all have problems. But we do have one thing in common....we are still alive. Now open your eyes...your sitting infront of a computer right now, prolly sipping on a corona like me, or sitting in a heated or air-conditioned room, with power, lights, som radio playing, your driving to work in a car, your eating till your full everyday, sometimes 3 times a day, you have clean water to drink and shower in, your cloths have that Downey fresh smell, and your cat or dog has just finishered ther bowl of grub that you gave them. Your about to call your buddy on the cell phone to see what they are doing tonight, and you might have the urge to go find some activity to make your dismal life more pleasurable. You know in your heart that your safe, you can afford decent medical attention if something happens, or if your family wants to have a little get together to grill up some steaks for the weekend. You've had the decent life of being an American. Sure...part of that is paying for taxes, working for a living, struggling to get to that point of feeling that your almost secure in your stage of life, and that your setting something in the bank for your future for you to have so when you get old, you'll have something to enjoy or kick back and live the remainder of your life with.

I don't agree with this. Sure, we have good lives right now, but the fture is looking dismal. And thats the number 1 reason why i don't want to have kids. I don't want my sons and/or daughters to have to live in a world of shit because we older folks) let it get to that point.

Well.......Snap out of it bucko....we got it made compaired to the other 75% of the worlds human inhabitants. Think about it.....

Because we worked hard to get there.

If somalia would stop danicng around a fire in their skibbies, maybe they too could invent something of use to the word.
That's their culture. That's what they want to do.
But to say we're better tan them because of it, is simply not true.

Other countries have no real food, they have epidemics....people are starving in some countries....is that Bushes Fault?
not at all. that's their countries goverments fault.
there is more than enough food being produced to feed the entire world.

and the hell with other countries, there are people starving HERE. there are people homeless HERE.

Were only under a threat of terror now...but other countries has to live with it everyday of there lives.... some places has 2-3 car bombings a day, and other places the people live in fear from their rulers.

I can go on and on...... on what we have....and the list could be 3-20 pages long..but I hate to type...so I'll quit there.

and you don't see us heading there? Sure, other places have it bad.... but the more we piss off the world, we are going to become another bomb dumpster.

and the only thing that is going to save us is our technology.

good thing we're not dancing around a fire....................


Don't like it, move. don't want to move..then change it. can't change it...then your a low, and pathetic person for complaining about it if your not going to do something about it.

Again, I ask, what is the common person, like me, to do about it?



And look at what you have, and compare it to what others have...if that doen't make you humble...then I wish you were born as one of the lesser fortunate people on this earth.

I'm greatful for everything that I have.... but like you, I worked my ass off for everything I own. I'm not paris hilton getting spoon fed by daddy.

I'm glad we have Bush, and I'm glad I wasn't born in an era or place to where we had Hitler or rulers of that like. Things could be worse, reveiw history to see what it was like years ago, or in different places in the present. And before you complain...regress and see where you really are.

At the onslaught of the war, hitler had no desire to attack the US. sure, it came up as we entered the war, but in 1938, it was Warsaw, not new york.


Why were we bombed by the japs? because we put an embargo on them.
Why was there a cuban missle crisis? same freakin reason.

see a line here? it's WHAT WE DO THAT EFFECTS WHAT OTHERS DO TO US.

/This post is not directed at B...but to everyone.

and my comments are in general back at the floor, not at clayton.


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And there is a huge difference of recording a call and just listening in. REcording is illegal, but listening in is OK.

not true.

hence the term "monitored"

They are just looking at records of callers for patterns from certain groups to which a certain amount of calls was made, as in time and date to calls placed to other certain groups.

stereotying? no....... they couldn't be..... not our gov't....

They do not have the ability to listen to every call made in America, or the capability to record each call....if they did...do you know how many CDR's that would need to use and how many CDR drives they would need, and how many computers they would need to run that many CDR's......to record all the phone convo's....and then when they had a normal call from a husband to wife on what groceries would be needed tonight for tonights dinner, and that disk would be full, and then prolly sent to the porn industry to be re-written over with porn...just the de-frag cost's alone to re-write billions of calls a day would make that plan worthless....unless the porn industry gets the cheaper used CDR's at a cut rate price. :laugh:

No one uses CD's any more.

An average 5 min phone call an be stored in about the same size as a 640x480 jpg. ~ 60kb. Probably even smaller with goverment compression tehniques.

and look at google, caching all these images and webpages.... and they are a private company, not the goverment.

it can be done.

in a room smaller than your garage, too.


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Anyone read about the new tax cut bill that just passed in the house?

Gotta love the rich getting more tax breaks.

I didn't hear about this. more info please.

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Meanwhile analysts claim the deficit to be down by as much as $70 billion this year.

read that again.

That means that their budget is STILL ADDING to the deficit, but by 70 billion less.
They are still over spending. by a lot.

and probably a lot of it went to this phone recording thing.....


Why won't you guys give up? You paint one half of the picture 100% of the time. Never mind the Dow is about to break a record, never mind America hasn't been attacked in almost 5 years, never mind unemployment is under 5%.
Stocks are up, precious metals are up, economy is up. Yup.

Remember what happened last time?

"Roaring 20's" ring a bell?


yup. crash of 29.

wait for it, it's coming.

and probably WW3 soon after it.

history repeats itself.

We have identified that President Bush is taking necessary and (judging by the lack of attacks in the last 5 years) effective steps in Homeland security.

before 2001, when was the last time we were attacked by terrorists? i think it was 10 years or so maybe, the oklahoma blast? i could be wrong... but my point is that 5 years is nothing in the schemme of things.
its just the down time.

Had we been ATTEMPTED to be attacked again, and it was stopped due to Homeland Security means, I would give props where due.

But to my knowledge, there hasn't even been an attempt. So how can one say his plan has been the least bit effective? It can't be said either way.

Those who support his actions state that they aren't worried about their own privacy being effected (VTEC and I), they see the actions being undertaken as logical for what they're trying to prevent (Jockie and I), and they reflect on just how well off we actually are here in America(Jockie). Even after war has been declared on us by the third world, even after 6 years of (gasp) Bush control.

i could care less if they record my calls.
90% of them consisit of "coffee time y0" "werd" anyway. But the fact is that JUST LIKE THE PATRIOT ACT, Bush has broken a privacy law on his own people.

On the other hand, those who oppose it seem to be looking for: something to blame Bush for or need a good conspiracy theory (Sol, recked, & 2000),

What's the consipiracy here? I'm balming him for breaking my constitional right for free speach. among all the others hes taken with him in the past 6 years. He can take his patiot act and shove it up his incest-bred ass. I wonder what it's like having your 2nd cousin also be your mother..........

I think this spells out the division in the populous pretty damn well :)


Left middle right........ maybe.

wait a sec VTEC, why did you say you wanted to kill Bush? That's just ig'nant

yeah, and stupid too. As much as I hate bush, cheeny moving up, or condelesbian ricebowl can't possibly be any better.... you'd have to kill about 80 people if you kill bush. lol So, I too cannot condone such action.

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If they wanted to catch osama they could

They already did. But then through orders from bush, they assigned an Afghan regime to bring him in.

WHY?

Because bush's family is cronies with the bin ladens, and once again, its all about money.


Ya know, when's the last time you heard Al Queda in the news?? I thought they were the ones that attacked us, no?

You people who beleive in what Bush is doing need to see the bigger picture. See what's really going on. Because you're missing it.


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I have a healthy level of discontent with his political views. And unlike many on this site when I disagree with him I point it out just as loudly as when I point out my disagreement with Havok, Recked, or anyone else for that matter. In short B doesn't get any "Pissedoffpreferentialtreatment"

Nor do I want any. I enourage you all to make your own decisions. I'm wrong all the time. I'm hardly an idol.

All I ask is that everyone does their own research on what's going on, and realize that yo're being fooled.
 
The new tax break concerns investment taxes, since only the upper and upper middle class really invest it's easy to misunderstand how this benefits the country

Observe

Tomorrow you I and everyone gets let's say $1,000 tax refund from Bush. I finish my brake conversion, B and jockie pay some debt off, Mirage has some more money for his front end conversion... minimal effect to the economy in the long term

Inversely if a tax break is given to people who invest in the market (and it was given to all investors with no preference to any income level) people have more money to invest. When people invest more money companies acquire more capitol and business grows in the US. This leads to positive overall trickle down effects for the whole country such as more jobs, higher wages, and bigger profits. Of coarse big business as well benefits from this.

Before you claim this is false logic let me remind you that this is Bushenomics 101 and it's what brought us out of recession in 2001 and has led to unemployment under 5%

The problem is the Left only shows you that "the rich" get that tax break and "the rich" profit from it, they conveniently miss all that good stuff in between. This problem is made worse by the fact that the GOP has done an extremely poor job communicating to the public. This is an underlying problem with the right as a whole and effects many other aspects of our nation, such as the NSA.

Stock Crash? WWIII? If it does happen (and it could), it's not the fault of Bush (even though I'm sure he'll be blamed weather it happens tomorrow or 20years from now) it will be the fault of the collapse of the oil market as the bell curve of production travels downward while demand still keeps going up. This is why I tell everyone to quit waiting for the government to do something for you and get away from oil as much as you can (hybrids, ethanol, solar panels on houses). You ask what can you do to effect the world you live in when your such a small part? Getting off oil soon could actually do allot to prevent WWIII
 
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The new tax break concerns investment taxes, since only the upper and upper middle class really invest it's easy to misunderstand how this benefits the country

The problem is the Left only shows you that "the rich" get that tax break and "the rich" profit from it, they conveniently miss all that good stuff in between. This problem is made worse by the fact that the GOP has done an extremely poor job communicating to the public. This is an underlying problem with the right as a whole and effects many other aspects of our nation, such as the NSA.

gotchya. yeah, i just haven't heard about it. but yes, investment taxes are rediculous as it is (40+% on some things) so they could use a cut. and yes, it does end up benefitting everyone.

Stock Crash? WWIII? If it does happen (and it could), it's not the fault of Bush (even though I'm sure he'll be blamed weather it happens tomorrow or 20years from now) it will be the fault of the collapse of the oil market

I don't think we'll get to that point that EVERYTHING crashes because of oil. especially 20 years out form now.

and i'm not saying the crash or wwIII will be because of bush.

but historically, when the ecnomy is booming, it falls HARD soon after.


Gold rush of 1849, depression of 1857 i think it was
the 20s -> the great depression, wwII

whats next?
 
stock market boom of the late 90's -> bubble popped and we are still feeling the effects...

combine the tech market with fraud like enron etc and this is where we end up...

20's -> great depression -> WW2
90's -> bubble burst -> Iraq war

history repeats itself
war is money, the war machine wins yet again
 
all I'm saying is I putting away money now to get away from this oil thing. 5 years from now when I'm living in my house with solar panels to heat my water, a wood stove cutting my heating bill in half with wood supplied by the trees on my property (yaaay Oregon) and driving hybrid or ethonal cars I will have done my part to help my nation build toward the future, and everyone else should take similar steps
 
The biggest downfall about all the economic "expansion" that is going on is that wages are not up with the inflation. For all the dumbies out there, like myself, I'll spell it out to you.

These numbers are complete bull shit, I'm just trying to paint a pretty picture.

In 2000 you get paid 10.00 an hour. The DOW is at 1000. In 2006. The dow is at 2000 and you're getting paid 11.00. Houses have risen a catastrophic XX% but your wage has barely gone up 10%, and that could be completely due to tenure, and not even inflatable wage increase, which is covered in most corporations, and int he federal/state minimum wage. The unfortunate thing is, everything will cost most money to you, and you still not have as much of the "pie" as you did in 2000.

This is my family's case, my business' case, my school's case, and my case.

Did my wage go up the 30%? No. But....gas prices rose, electrical bills, and every single energy derived/related product from a movie ticket to a piece of corn. Prices went up, the dollar isn't worth nearly as much as it used to, but I still make unfortunately not enough to suffice in the long run.

Yes. Deductions on the investment and capital gains tax are very cool, and will be worth it once I have the money to play with, but in the long run in my perspective, as an aspiring college student, they trigger much spending/demand driving up the price of commodities, while not necessarily driving up the wage/service industry.
 
:werd:

I haven't had a significant wage increase in 5 years.

5 years ago, everything was cheaper. everything.
 
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:werd:

I haven't had a significant wage increase in 5 years.

5 years ago, everything was cheaper. everything.

And that's because the prices of everythng is based on the price of Oil. Gas was like $1.20 5 years ago, now it's $3.20, that's a huge increase and has increased the price of everyhint from cabrides to the price of corn (ethanol). Companies are using the money there getting in the growing economy to offset oil costs and thus prices and wages suffer

get off of oil, lower demand, prices will taper off and go down

sorry if I sound like a broken record, I'm just trying to connect the dots of how this all makes sense
 
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin

"What comes to pass does so not so much because a few people want it to happen, as because the mass of citizens abdicate their responsibility and let things be."
- Antonio Gramsci

"The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate."
- Noam Chomsky

"If those in charge of our society - politicians, corporate executives, and owners of press and television - can dominate our ideas, they will be secure in their power. They will not need soldiers patrolling the streets. We will control ourselves."
- Howard Zinn

"Flags are bits of coloured cloth that governments use first to shrink-wrap people's minds and then as ceremonial shrouds to bury the dead."
- Arundhati Roy

"Why of course the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship...Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger."
- Hermann Goering, Commander-in-Chief of the Luftwaffe, at the Nuremberg Trials after World War II
 
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:werd:

I haven't had a significant wage increase in 5 years.

5 years ago, everything was cheaper. everything.

And that's because the prices of everythng is based on the price of Oil. Gas was like $1.20 5 years ago, now it's $3.20, that's a huge increase and has increased the price of everyhint from cabrides to the price of corn (ethanol). Companies are using the money there getting in the growing economy to offset oil costs and thus prices and wages suffer

get off of oil, lower demand, prices will taper off and go down

sorry if I sound like a broken record, I'm just trying to connect the dots of how this all makes sense

Thisis my problem with the administration. Yes they are making steps to do research into ethanol and such, but the reason for such is a pander to the public. They do have the ability to control inflation, and a "pander" meaning we might do this, and we might grant approach isn't going to fix this problem in the long run, unless they actually act. Hell if they spent 1/4 of the time that they do pandering about iraq, aand actually looking into controling inflation, and reusable energy sources, things that affect the us and not the global stage, I would be very happy. But when I go to the gas station and try to buy a candy bar that now costs 1.19 for a fucking snickers. Yeah I'm not going to be happy.

It isn't just the price of oil. That is very narrow minded. It is energy as whole. Not oil. Electricity, everything. Everything has gone up. Why do I say this? Everything is energy intensive, and oil is just less 1/4 oif how we get our energy in the US.

At my college, we do step out and support the "green revolution" and purchase 100% fully renewable energy. Unfortunately we are the only college in the country to do so.
 
There is a big, fat fucking line between pandering and trying to solve a problem.

Is anything good enough ?
 
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There is a big, fat fucking line between pandering and trying to solve a problem.

Is anything good enough ?

Yep. You are 100% right. Doing is completely different from talking about something. Campaigning to let everyone know you're going to try and get something passed is completely different from, getting it done.

Hmm lets see. Reusable fuels, how much has been passed to research it? Oh how many judistices have been elected? How much more has the bush administration pushed for changes in personnel and getting people to pass senate justice hearing committees versus, grant money to expand reusable fuels, etc.

One should know, automobiles are only part of the oil consumption. The commercial sector has a lot to do with it as well, and reusable fuels suit that are much more.

Agenda's are there for a reason.
 
Nuclear energy. That's our answer.

but because plants from 25 years ago had problems, everyone is scared of it.

it's bs. our technology has come so far in the past 25 years. hell, 10 years ago, most of us were just getting their first computers. and those were the nerds who had windows for workgroups or dos.

apply our technology today to a good nuclear system, and we will be fine.

no more oil to make electricty. thats half our consumption... easily.
 
Your right nuclear energy is part of the solution but it's not the whole awnser. Accidents could still happen and it still pollutes. Comparing the accidents/pollution from coal/oil to nuke energy is like comparing the common cold to Super AIDS. It can still be useful though

The real money is in Solar and Wind energy. I should buy a fucking desert and farm energy haha
 
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Anyone read about the new tax cut bill that just passed in the house?

Gotta love the rich getting more tax breaks.

Meanwhile analysts claim the deficit to be down by as much as $70 billion this year. Why won't you guys give up? You paint one half of the picture 100% of the time. Never mind the Dow is about to break a record, never mind America hasn't been attacked in almost 5 years, never mind unemployment is under 5%.

I would just like to give a big +1 to everyone, and I mean everyone, who has posted in this thread.

We have identified that President Bush is taking necessary and (judging by the lack of attacks in the last 5 years) effective steps in Homeland security. Those who support his actions state that they aren't worried about their own privacy being effected (VTEC and I), they see the actions being undertaken as logical for what they're trying to prevent (Jockie and I), and they reflect on just how well off we actually are here in America(Jockie). Even after war has been declared on us by the third world, even after 6 years of (gasp) Bush control.

On the other hand, those who oppose it seem to be looking for: something to blame Bush for or need a good conspiracy theory (Sol, recked, & 2000), would rather call names then address this issue or speak to it's facts (AFIpunk), or simply want to kill the president (smokey)

I think this spells out the division in the populous pretty damn well :)

wait a sec VTEC, why did you say you wanted to kill Bush? That's just ig'nant

I simply point out something I read in the paper... and I called names?

Where?

I could care less about politics, and I'm not blaming or pointing fingers at anything... but the fact remains that a whopping 88% of people making 1 million + next year will get a tax break, as opposed to those of whom are in my tax bracket... which sits at a miniscule 6.1%.
 
no no, before the comma, Havok called names you were conspiracy theory

"Anyone read about the new tax cut bill that just passed in the house?

Gotta love the rich getting more tax breaks."

and I addressed how that's false on the last page
 
We have desert land for sale every year in august after the wildfires burn it up... I'm not sure how windy it is out there, but it's enough to spread the wildfires around.



2000Si just made it the 5000 club.
 
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