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How stiff is Stiff?

Discussion in 'Wheels / Suspension / Tires / Brakes' started by YangpaNemsay, Dec 11, 2004.

  1. YangpaNemsay

    YangpaNemsay Senior Member

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    How would a spring rate of 12/10 run on the street?
     
  2. 94RedSiGal

    94RedSiGal Senior Member

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    *pages nfn15037*



    We're just getting back from picking up his new aluminum racing jack from the local UPS depot. lol. So how is the pavement is your area btw? What's bearable in Naples, FL would not be in the Boston area.... street conditions are not equal in all areas.
     
  3. YangpaNemsay

    YangpaNemsay Senior Member

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    Occasional Pot Holes, Dips in some places, Relatively Even Ground, May plan on trips (San Diego -> Los Angeles and back).

    I don't value Ride Comfort or NVH Levels.
     
  4. nfn15037

    nfn15037 Senior Member

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    Well it really depends on a couple of things. First and foremost, what is your definiton of "comfortable" or "streetable"? Second would of course be proper damping. Those rates come out to be 670 in/lb and 558 in/lb. To me, with proper shock damping that would be OK. I can take the beating in trade for huge smiles at autocross or on track. I would however suggest 10kf/12kR since that will be a much better estup unless you plan on running staggered tire sized(like 225s up front and 195s out back). Otherwise the car will still understeer. Th epoint of all of this is to get an inherently understeer-prone chassis design(Front wheel drive) to have a little grip in the rear as possible. This is all well and good to a point, and you as a driver need to decide where that point is. I suggest driving a few setups and decing on what you feel comfprtable with in terms of ride quality and rotation. Personally, I drive 450F/550R springs in a 2368 lb car, I used to daily drive it in Florida and it was just fine, but roads in the NorthEast suck ass, so I don't like driving it up here except to and from autocross. You just have to be aware of who drives your car, because most any inexperienced driver will back it off the road if they lift mid-corner.
     
  5. YangpaNemsay

    YangpaNemsay Senior Member

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    Errr, I want to tune the car so I will be able to dial in as close to neutral as I can and be able to dial in oversteer when I can. I plan on using the car for Speed Trial USA and Drift Days

    For Speed Trial I plan on using some street tires in all four corners, 15x7 wheels, Rear Sway Bar, Front Tower Bar, and 12/10 rated suspension.

    For Drift Days I plan on using a Staggered Set up for the wheels, 15x7 or 16x7 up front, 14x5 rear, Avon Tech R Tires up front and Firestone F690 in the rear, Skunk2 Camber Kit/Camber Plates up front dialed in at 2.0 or 2.5, Rear Sway Bar, Rear Tower Bar, No Front Tower Bar, and 12/10 rated suspension.

    I know that Civics participating at Drift Days is really unorthodox and offends some people, but I'd just like to go out and have some fun.

    I don't plan on doing Drift Days till 2006 (if it's still around)

    I'm planning to do Speed Trial USA and Solo2 Events in the Fall of 2005 because I know that if you plan on doing any trick driving maneuvers, you must first learn how to perfect your line and drive on a track.

    Learn how to drive on a track first, then do whatever the hell you want, as long as it's not on the street and endagers lives of innocent bystanders or your fellow drivers.

    Will 12/10 rated suspension be helpful in my condition to go participate in Drift Day Events?
     
  6. 94RedSiGal

    94RedSiGal Senior Member

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    Well since no one else has replied.... I think that you lost nfn with all your talk of drifting events. Keep in mind that he is not offended by your talk of drifting as he plays in empty wet parking lots when he can. Car control is very important. But I(we) think that you really need to go for some driving schools in an imperfect car, and from there start tweaking your suspension even more. It's just part of a good solid learning process to start with a car with some understeer (more forgiving). For instance, many ITR's got balled up by inexperienced drivers not used to the beefy rear swaybar setup. They would brake mid corner and spin out. Having good driving skills is much more important than the car setup. In autocross, a great autocrosser can outperform in stock car than a novice driving in their tuned car. Driving skills and taking the perfect lines are needed in addition to have a well setup car. Also, there is no one perfect car setup. Just check out the mods on competition cars in any given event. The more you learn and gain real experience, the less you will ask others for advice and just know what mods to tweak your car with.

    I also realize that you don't want to waste your money buying parts that you will eventually outgrow, but you can save money by hunting for used ones. And it seems like everyone's car on HondaSwap is constantly evolving. lol.
     
  7. YangpaNemsay

    YangpaNemsay Senior Member

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    I plan to do Speed Trial USA and Solo2 for about 3-4 months before I even plan on doing butt sliding of any kind.

    I believe that learning to drive on a track in an underpowered car is the very first thing a person should do before doing any other form of motorsport or exhibition.


    I'm having a dilemma on choosing which coilovers to use. In my case I will be doing track driving, and drift day events.

    The two coilovers I have been eyeing are the Buddy Club Full Coilovers and the OmniPower USA Sport Coilovers.

    Buddy Club: 12kg/mm Front and 8kg/mm Rear (Adjustable) [~$1800 new]
    OmniPower USA: 12kg/mm Front and 10kg/mm Rear (Non-Adjustable) [~$800 new]

    In my neverending pursuit to be a cheap bastard, I will be using the coilovers for daily driving.

    What choice of coilovers would you suggest for my goals? More-so for performing in Drift Day and seeing track time as opposed to performing at a track and seeing Drift Day events. Errrr, to put it simple, For a Drift Day Car that does track racing occasionaly.

    With Hondas on the Racetrack, they've had extensive coverage done on them because they are reliable (to a degree) and have lots of tuning support.
    With Hondas at Exhibition Drift events they have not been having extensive coverage, because they are FWD and because it's a Honda. I've only seen the Falken Drift EF Civic and Kyle Arai's EF have coverage done on them but there is room to improve (if you look at it in an optimistic sort of way).


    I do plan on taking a driving school and practice track driving (of course following the proper line and braking in and accelerating out of the corners). Once I perfect what skill I have, I will go out to to Drift Day Events and just have a little fun.


    I enjoy the idea of motorsports in general whether it be Rally, Solo2, Track Driving, or Drift Exhibition Events.
    I think that I might try Rally Driving one day, maybe in a beater G1 Integra for fun :lol: .

    I don't really enjoy watching Nascar. To me all the cars looks the same and they usually run on an oval track. Look the same, do the same thing over and over and over again for a high number of laps. It does not get me going <_<
     
  8. 94RedSiGal

    94RedSiGal Senior Member

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    Well.... we have no firsthand experience with the coilovers you mentioned. What we both like are the Ground Control coilovers with Koni Yellow shocks. It's a classic and proven combination. You can call Ground Control and talk to them about your needs and they will put together a package with the right Eibach springs for you. Later on, you might even want to have your Konis double valved. These products have excellent customer support here in the US. Matt says that at the pro events, there is always a Koni support truck on hand.

    Other people will have to express their opinions on the Buddy Clubs and Omni Power products.
     
  9. YangpaNemsay

    YangpaNemsay Senior Member

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    Thanks for all your advice and knowledge 94RedSiGal :D

    I'll think i'll start out with the OmniPower ones, and then move onto the Ground Control/Koni Yellow application if the OmniPowers don't suit me.

    I'm in search of creating the ultimate budget track/exhibition Civic that the everyday college student and/or military person can afford.

    My goals in the future are to build vehicles that can perform well at a sensible budget that everyone can enjoy B) whether it be track driving, rally, exhibition, or a great street cruiser.
     
  10. 94RedSiGal

    94RedSiGal Senior Member

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    Well if you truly want to be sensible, find yourself a set of used GC/Koni Yellows. The going rate for them is about $400. That's what I paid for my two sets. So Bam! Saved yourself $400 right there. I haven't seen any used OmniPower setups and their resale value may be poor.

    Matt and I are planning a budget rally car ourselves right now. :)
     
  11. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    omnipowers suck. might as well get some dropzone ebay bullshit and save some money. i've heard nothing but bad about them.

    i personally run 8/6 on my del sol, and i think they are too soft, and ill-matched for the shocks. way to go tein.

    on my 240 i ran 8/7 and loved 'em. perfect.

    silkraod-usa.com

    look into them. if i do replace the suspension on the hatch, it will be with a set of these.

    just gotta tell the tech guy at autoX to learn something about new designs again.... >_>
     
  12. nfn15037

    nfn15037 Senior Member

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    Only the struts have the inverted mounts B, so your EG shoukd be fine :)
     
  13. 94RedSiGal

    94RedSiGal Senior Member

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    B I don't think that Silkroads fit the budget theme that YangpaNemsay is going for.... didn't yours cost $1800 or so? And btw do you get some sort of kickback for every Silkroad setup sold in the US? lol.

    j/k..... just playing with you. ;)
     
  14. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    they are 1300-1400 depending on the model of the car from the DG store. might even be able to do better.
    i am in no way associated with them, nor do i make a dime off of them. i was really just that happy with them.

    IMO, if you're willing to spend 800-1000 on a setup, whats a couple bucks more for something that will blow it out of the water.
     
  15. 94RedSiGal

    94RedSiGal Senior Member

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    I'm just not feeling the awesomeness of the Silkroads. I guess that I'd like to see them on some serious autocross and track competition cars first. Otherwise, I feel that on the professional drift competition cars, those teams are not getting off the shelf Teins and Silkroads, they are getting special fitment and inventory from those companies.
     
  16. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    don't get me wrong, i'd love to be sporting some $6000 moltons or ohlins with side draft resovoirs and shit, but its just way too much money, and frankly, i'm not a good enough driver to be able to notice the different between it and a 1500-ish coilover setup.

    as for pro-drifters using them, you'd be suprised who uses them.

    JR, eric from dg, vosko and chris with the sr20-powered 350z on the pro circuit all use either off-the-shelf tien or silkraod suspension
     
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