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hydraulic turbines?

Discussion in 'Forced Induction' started by MikeBergy, Sep 23, 2004.

  1. MikeBergy

    MikeBergy Blah blah blah....

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    I was searching online for some different variations of forced induction used in autosports. I am familiar with the almighty turbocharger and superchargers, but was wondering if any one has seen a turbocharger that feeds the turbine using hydraulic pressure, say, from tapping into powersteering pump lines, rather than using exhaust gases. I am really just looking to see all the ideas that people have come up with over the years. I am also looking at the benefits that may come with a more compact turbo unit that could be mounted somewhere other than right between the two biggest heat sinks in the engine compartment. Anybody with links or info on where or who to look for? Thanks in advance.
     
  2. MaaseyRacer

    MaaseyRacer Senior Member

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    There was some mention of this in an older sport compact car magazine, about the time that the RX-8 was coming out. I think it would be a great idea it would just take a car company to back it. Someone like Mazda or Nissan really needs to develope it. They have a lot of experience building forced induction cars, and have built very reliable forced induction cars. It would be dope if garret or turbonetics came out with something along the lines of a hydro charger, but it would need factory backing to get off the ground.
     
  3. Slammed90Lude

    Slammed90Lude Senior Member

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    the big problem is finding a way to drive the fluid at a high enough volume and speed to spin the turbo- Everyone is familiar with the parasitic losses associated with the supercharger, but moving air is considerably easier than moving some type of hydraulic fluid, specifically at a speed high enough to spin a turbine fast enough to create boost- One turbo company had the idea to use oil to spin the center section in hopes of eliminating lag, but the extra equipment necessary to get the oil moving that fast wasn't worth the minimal gains-Exhaust gas is basically free (almost) and that makes it better for spinning a turbo than the amount of equipment necessary to pump hydraulic fluid (pumps, lines, reservoir, etc)
     
  4. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    One of the advantages to using fluid to physically drive a system is that hydraulic fluid of any type will have more mass than air, so it would require much less volume to produce the same amount of power as air. You could use a lower volume of fluid compared to air, take up less space...... this would require more research though- more math.

    :)
     
  5. Slammed90Lude

    Slammed90Lude Senior Member

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    yes that is true

    i wonder if using exhaust gas to spin a hydraulic pump would be useful..........
    because i figure using a belt driven hyraulic pump would be stupid, IMO, but then again there are probably more advanced hydraulic pumps on the market than I'm aware of
     
  6. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Probably not- trying to move a dense fluid at speed with a very not dense and more compressible fluid (air) wouldn't be very productive.
     
  7. K2e2vin

    K2e2vin Senior Member

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    i think that was the hydracharger. he said it works but they scrapped the idea of making it for cars and now its going to be used in trucks instead...
     
  8. MikeBergy

    MikeBergy Blah blah blah....

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    Well, my idea involved using the ps pump to drive the turbine, because I was planning on disconnecting the ps anyways when I start racing my car. My idea would use the oem ps pump, and then just use extended ps lines to wherever the the turbo would be mounted, and then just add fuel management to the car, like any other fi setup. I just figure, why not use existing FACTORY equipment. I can't imagine the ps pump not being up to the task. It pushes enough fluid to power the steering rack. I have the math background and would do the design myself. If I DO decide to try and engineer it myself, I'll probably modify the turbine housing of a popular model of air turbocharger, like a t4 or something, to accept hydraulic lines, so that it would be cost effective to mass produce if it worked :). The only thing that would have to be researched would be the area ratio of the turbine, the trim of the wheel, and the wastegate pressure, since I will obviously be using an internal wastgate setup (don't want hydraulic fluid going all over the place :) ). The math is nothing a little thermo and fluid dynamics homework can't handle. I'll also probably be taking a turbomachinery class in the winter on top of my air-breathing propulsion class, so I might even be able to engineer a turbine wheel myself. I know it has probably been done before, I'm just looking for a project, maybe even a senior project coming up later this year, since I'll be graduating in june. (hell yeah.)
     
  9. K2e2vin

    K2e2vin Senior Member

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    thats like how the hydracharger works, but the hydracharger has like two compressor wheels in one housing(series setup, i forgot what they called it)
     
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