any relational database experts in here? here's the deal: I have a main table (one) and i have a phone number table (many) there can be multiple phone numbers for each order in the mian table, each joined off a confirmation code number. I'm trying to set up an out put, so that i get 1 record that includes the counts from the main table. for example, Joe has 2 phone numbers, each with long distance options. so i have: Main: row1 Joe codeA Phones: row1 codeA longdistance row2 codeA longdistance what i need for the output is: Joe codeA 2 i can't figure this out. i'm retarded. When i left outer join the tables, i get 2 rows (one for each number) instead of the one result row i want of course, this is the over-simplified version do i need to make a temp table with my counts first, then join to that?