I feel like annoying the neocons today
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Originally posted by Sabz5150@Apr 21 2004, 02:23 AM
I just enjoy getting you guys all riled up
The only person that has ever seen me riled up is the guy a ran over after he shot me in the leg, I was quite riled up.
Anyway, I guess the humor of political cartoons is WAYYYY over your head. You see, it's kind of like gargoyles. They were originally made ugly by those that created them in mocking the ones that made them make them. It was their way of laughing at the man.
See, this is funny...
Not funny...
If you really want to see truely funny political commentary in the form of cartoons, read Doonesbury, as I suggested earlier, or even Bloom County
Sabz5150
FALCON PUNCH!!!
Originally posted by 92b16vx+Apr 20 2004, 08:54 PM-->@Apr 21 2004, 02:23 AM
I just enjoy getting you guys all riled up
The only person that has ever seen me riled up is the guy a ran over after he shot me in the leg, I was quite riled up.
Anyway, I guess the humor of political cartoons is WAYYYY over your head. You see, it's kind of like gargoyles. They were originally made ugly by those that created them in mocking the ones that made them make them. It was their way of laughing at the man.
See, this is funny...
Not funny...
If you really want to see truely funny political commentary in the form of cartoons, read Doonesbury, as I suggested earlier, or even Bloom County
Agreed, those are some good 'toons. I like the ones I posted simply because they take a no bullshit stab at what's going on. Every artist is different. I believe Kirk to be a good cartoonist because I've found myself saying 'Aint that the damn truth!' when I look at a lot of his political toons.
Cagle's a good site btw.
Even though I don't work for them anymore and really don't like them that much, my time inside Halliburton has shown me that quite a bit of the politics surrounding how they got a bunch of the jobs is a bunch of crap. Sure, Dick Cheney used to be CEO, but the jobs that the big H got just happened to be areas that they had the largest market share in too. If Dick wasn't VP, there wouldn't be anywhere near the amount of fuss over jobs that Halliburton probably would have gotten anyway.
/rant over
By the way, I still don't really like Halliburton and the stress that working there put me through- although I can't blame them for all of it. Oh yeah- most of the people I talked to inside the company thought that Dick was a... dick too. He wasn't really that well liked internally.
/rant over
By the way, I still don't really like Halliburton and the stress that working there put me through- although I can't blame them for all of it. Oh yeah- most of the people I talked to inside the company thought that Dick was a... dick too. He wasn't really that well liked internally.
my experience is that CEO's that are liked aren't CEO's very long... Folks that get to that level piss off a lot of people on the way up the ladder and, while there, make unpopular decisions in order to grow their company and push people to do more than they want to...
as for the purpose of this thread, the problem with the "cartoons" originally posted is that they're not satirical. As defined by google: "a work of art, literature or music that mocks or ridicules a popular idea or public figure by reduction to absurdity."
Politcial cartoons are expected to be satirical and those definately aren't.
as for the purpose of this thread, the problem with the "cartoons" originally posted is that they're not satirical. As defined by google: "a work of art, literature or music that mocks or ridicules a popular idea or public figure by reduction to absurdity."
Politcial cartoons are expected to be satirical and those definately aren't.
Yeah, it's no big deal to me.
I just know that Halliburton just happened to be the top company for putting out oilwell fires, so logically they would be the ones chosen to put out fires in Iraq- along with a lot of the other jobs that they were given. I'm sure they would have gotten the contracts whether or not Dick-head was VP... but since he is the Vice Presidential Dick, everyone has to make a huge deal about it.
Oh well. I'm not a manager there anymore- I don't care.
I just know that Halliburton just happened to be the top company for putting out oilwell fires, so logically they would be the ones chosen to put out fires in Iraq- along with a lot of the other jobs that they were given. I'm sure they would have gotten the contracts whether or not Dick-head was VP... but since he is the Vice Presidential Dick, everyone has to make a huge deal about it.
Oh well. I'm not a manager there anymore- I don't care.
Sabz5150
FALCON PUNCH!!!
Originally posted by Calesta@Apr 22 2004, 10:58 AM
Yeah, it's no big deal to me.
I just know that Halliburton just happened to be the top company for putting out oilwell fires, so logically they would be the ones chosen to put out fires in Iraq- along with a lot of the other jobs that they were given. I'm sure they would have gotten the contracts whether or not Dick-head was VP... but since he is the Vice Presidential Dick, everyone has to make a huge deal about it.
Oh well. I'm not a manager there anymore- I don't care.
Conflict of interest?
who cares who did what. you're all just pissed off that someone else is making millions of dollars in life due to their connections.
you would do the same thing if you were in their shoes.
i know i would.
instead of bitching about it and getting all jealous, get out there and make some connections in life with some high powered people so you too can pull strings.
its the american way
you would do the same thing if you were in their shoes.
i know i would.
instead of bitching about it and getting all jealous, get out there and make some connections in life with some high powered people so you too can pull strings.
its the american way
So because he used to run the company, he can't send the business that way even though he has no legal ties to it anymore? Even if the company is the best choice for the job? Like I said, everyone wants to make a big deal about it just because he used to at the top of the command ladder there.
Well, I'm sure that there are- but then you're treading the fine line between choosing the best company for the job and having people call "conflict of interest" on you, or picking someone that's second rate and not getting the most for your money. Even if there are financial ties, as long as you prove that a company is the best choice for the job based on solid decision criteria when compared to other companies, you're fine. That's not conflict of interest.
Sabz5150
FALCON PUNCH!!!
Here's a snippet I found that discusses some of these matters.
Let's say there's a businessman -- in China, for example -- with stellar public-sector connections. He wins billions of dollars in government contracts for his company. Let's say this businessman becomes a high-ranking government official himself. And let's say the government begins throwing its enemies into prison without trials or access to attorneys.
Would anyone be surprised if the official's former company wins the contract for building all those new prison cells? Probably not. We'd just assume that's how things work in a place like Beijing. Only this isn't a hypothetical situation, and it's not really about China. We're actually talking about the U.S. government and an American company. And the official in question is none other than Vice President Dick Cheney.
Cheney, of course, previously served as chief executive officer of Halliburton, the Dallas oil-services giant. Less well-known is that Halliburton owns a subsidiary called Kellogg, Brown & Root, which is one of the Defense Department's leading contractors.
KBR, as the company's called, is profiting handsomely from America's war on terror. Among other things, it's responsible for feeding most of the troops at Bagram Air Base, the U.S. military's headquarters in Afghanistan.
KBR's contract to provide support services for the Army lasts 10 years and contains no limit on spending. It could end up being worth billions. KBR has a similar deal with the Navy.
In July, the government announced that KBR had been awarded a $9.7 million contract to build an additional 204-unit detention center at the U.S. military base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, where hundreds of "enemy combatants" have been held since January.
This is on top of $16 million received by KBR in February to get the Guantanamo prison facility off the ground, as well as another $7 million in April to expand the compound.
Most of the detainees have been denied any form of due process since being taken prisoner. This is slippery stuff. Cheney plays a central role in shaping Washington's response to the Sept. 11 attacks. A company he once ran benefits directly from the government's actions.
"You can't get a clearer example of conflict of interest," said Bill Allison, managing editor for the Center for Public Integrity, a nonpartisan government watchdog group in Washington, DC. "It's a troubling phenomenon, to say the least."
That's not how Halliburton sees it. The company says Cheney currently plays no role whatsoever in any business dealings between Halliburton and the government. As for the $3.8 billion in government contracts and loans received by the company during Cheney's tenure as CEO, from 1995 to 2000, Halliburton spokeswoman Wendy Hall stressed that Cheney steered clear of all defense matters. "He didn't want the appearance of being influential over any contracts awarded to KBR," she said.
Allison at the Center for Public Integrity all but laughed off this claim. "It's beyond belief that the CEO is not involved in all aspects of the company's business," he said. Indeed, it does seem a stretch to think that a former U.S. defense secretary, with a Rolodex stuffed full of Pentagon contacts, would have nothing to do with his company's lucrative defense business.
In any case, KBR did quite well under Cheney's watch. The company's defense contracts during the period ranged from $10 million for removal of hazardous waste at military bases and $5 million for maintenance of Florida missile facilities to $470 million for supporting U.S. forces in Bosnia and Croatia.
Moreover, documents uncovered by the Center for Public Integrity show that Halliburton received $1.5 billion in government loans and loan guarantees during the five years Cheney was CEO. That compares with just $100 million during the previous five years.
And the government contracts keep rolling in. Last year, for example, KBR was one of a number of defense-industry heavyweights handed a $5 billion government contract to dispose of outmoded weapons of mass destruction in the former Soviet Union.
In March, KBR received an almost $47 million contract to provide support services at the Naval Air Facility in El Centro (Imperial County), not far from the Mexican border.
And in August, a team of companies led by KBR received a $725 million, five- year contract to provide maintenance services at Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico, the country's premiere nuclear weapons lab.
Cheney retired from Halliburton in August 2000. He received $4.3 million in deferred compensation that year, plus $806,332 in salary. He subsequently sold more than $40 million in stock options. Even though he's no longer in Halliburton's executive suite, Cheney reported on his 2001 tax return that he received nearly $1.6 million in deferred compensation from the company last year.
Cheney is still receiving deferred compensation from Halliburton, but neither the company nor the White House would specify how large his payment will be this year or how long the payments will continue. This is cash that he's already earned. Yet it's also cash that Halliburton is accruing in part from its activities in Guantanamo Bay and Afghanistan.
"He's receiving money from the government and money from a private-sector company with government contracts," said Allison. "Whose payroll is he on?" The answer: Both of them. And that couldn't be right.
------------------------
Flame away.
Let's say there's a businessman -- in China, for example -- with stellar public-sector connections. He wins billions of dollars in government contracts for his company. Let's say this businessman becomes a high-ranking government official himself. And let's say the government begins throwing its enemies into prison without trials or access to attorneys.
Would anyone be surprised if the official's former company wins the contract for building all those new prison cells? Probably not. We'd just assume that's how things work in a place like Beijing. Only this isn't a hypothetical situation, and it's not really about China. We're actually talking about the U.S. government and an American company. And the official in question is none other than Vice President Dick Cheney.
Cheney, of course, previously served as chief executive officer of Halliburton, the Dallas oil-services giant. Less well-known is that Halliburton owns a subsidiary called Kellogg, Brown & Root, which is one of the Defense Department's leading contractors.
KBR, as the company's called, is profiting handsomely from America's war on terror. Among other things, it's responsible for feeding most of the troops at Bagram Air Base, the U.S. military's headquarters in Afghanistan.
KBR's contract to provide support services for the Army lasts 10 years and contains no limit on spending. It could end up being worth billions. KBR has a similar deal with the Navy.
In July, the government announced that KBR had been awarded a $9.7 million contract to build an additional 204-unit detention center at the U.S. military base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, where hundreds of "enemy combatants" have been held since January.
This is on top of $16 million received by KBR in February to get the Guantanamo prison facility off the ground, as well as another $7 million in April to expand the compound.
Most of the detainees have been denied any form of due process since being taken prisoner. This is slippery stuff. Cheney plays a central role in shaping Washington's response to the Sept. 11 attacks. A company he once ran benefits directly from the government's actions.
"You can't get a clearer example of conflict of interest," said Bill Allison, managing editor for the Center for Public Integrity, a nonpartisan government watchdog group in Washington, DC. "It's a troubling phenomenon, to say the least."
That's not how Halliburton sees it. The company says Cheney currently plays no role whatsoever in any business dealings between Halliburton and the government. As for the $3.8 billion in government contracts and loans received by the company during Cheney's tenure as CEO, from 1995 to 2000, Halliburton spokeswoman Wendy Hall stressed that Cheney steered clear of all defense matters. "He didn't want the appearance of being influential over any contracts awarded to KBR," she said.
Allison at the Center for Public Integrity all but laughed off this claim. "It's beyond belief that the CEO is not involved in all aspects of the company's business," he said. Indeed, it does seem a stretch to think that a former U.S. defense secretary, with a Rolodex stuffed full of Pentagon contacts, would have nothing to do with his company's lucrative defense business.
In any case, KBR did quite well under Cheney's watch. The company's defense contracts during the period ranged from $10 million for removal of hazardous waste at military bases and $5 million for maintenance of Florida missile facilities to $470 million for supporting U.S. forces in Bosnia and Croatia.
Moreover, documents uncovered by the Center for Public Integrity show that Halliburton received $1.5 billion in government loans and loan guarantees during the five years Cheney was CEO. That compares with just $100 million during the previous five years.
And the government contracts keep rolling in. Last year, for example, KBR was one of a number of defense-industry heavyweights handed a $5 billion government contract to dispose of outmoded weapons of mass destruction in the former Soviet Union.
In March, KBR received an almost $47 million contract to provide support services at the Naval Air Facility in El Centro (Imperial County), not far from the Mexican border.
And in August, a team of companies led by KBR received a $725 million, five- year contract to provide maintenance services at Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico, the country's premiere nuclear weapons lab.
Cheney retired from Halliburton in August 2000. He received $4.3 million in deferred compensation that year, plus $806,332 in salary. He subsequently sold more than $40 million in stock options. Even though he's no longer in Halliburton's executive suite, Cheney reported on his 2001 tax return that he received nearly $1.6 million in deferred compensation from the company last year.
Cheney is still receiving deferred compensation from Halliburton, but neither the company nor the White House would specify how large his payment will be this year or how long the payments will continue. This is cash that he's already earned. Yet it's also cash that Halliburton is accruing in part from its activities in Guantanamo Bay and Afghanistan.
"He's receiving money from the government and money from a private-sector company with government contracts," said Allison. "Whose payroll is he on?" The answer: Both of them. And that couldn't be right.
------------------------
Flame away.
I hate arguing politics. If you just read Allison's statements, there are quite a few logic jumps that just can't be made. Sure, if Cheney is still receiving pension money from Halliburton, some of it has to come from business in Iraq, right? You can't say "oh, let's put this cash here and make sure that we pay Dickhead from cash in another pile of cash in that corner." Cash is cash. If Cheney gets any money from Halliburton while big H is doing business in Iraq, someone's going to bitch. He's not necessarily receiving money from H because of Iraq.
KBR- if anything, KBR is more of a liability for Halliburton than anything else. Why else did H legally separate KBR from all business other than the name? The two companies are completely separate now except for the fact that they've got the same style logo.
It doesn't matter... politics crap is always a huge mess. I know how it was- I was on the inside at the management level. Everyone likes to sling blame when it's easy.
KBR- if anything, KBR is more of a liability for Halliburton than anything else. Why else did H legally separate KBR from all business other than the name? The two companies are completely separate now except for the fact that they've got the same style logo.
It doesn't matter... politics crap is always a huge mess. I know how it was- I was on the inside at the management level. Everyone likes to sling blame when it's easy.
Like most all ideological arguments, this one is also based on supposition and conjecture. Bill Allison refuses to believe because it doesn't agree with his ideology. No matter how much evidence he is given, he'll never believe.
For that matter, neither will the author of this post. Argueing is fruitless when both parties are adamant their position is "more right".
I am slowly learning to accept that fact and remain cool headed and somewhat removed when discussing the 3 no-no's of polite conversation: Money, Religion & Politics
For that matter, neither will the author of this post. Argueing is fruitless when both parties are adamant their position is "more right".
I am slowly learning to accept that fact and remain cool headed and somewhat removed when discussing the 3 no-no's of polite conversation: Money, Religion & Politics
Capt. Orygun
Win the Day
Oh look more people who can't find the time in there lives to get up off there fat asses and attempt to better the nation are throwing stones at those of us who are making an effort........
who would have thought it?........
Go live in Canada if you don't like it!
who would have thought it?........
Go live in Canada if you don't like it!