I was watching CNN...

[adnoh]

Originally posted by New2TheCarScene+Sep 7 2005, 01:23 PM-->

adnoh

@Sep 7 2005, 01:15 PM
Ummm...dude.... The world is out of Oil...has been for a LONG time...this is nothing new. Where is the alternative fuel? Nowhere. Why? US Oil corporations won't allow it. Why? Obvious.....will take a large chunk out of Oil Profits.

Sometimes the best viewpoint to have is that of the Layman's. You get WAYYY to wrapped up with details.

You're kidding, right?


The world is NOT out of oil and will not be out of oil for atleast another quarter century. We have oil in Texas, we have oil in Alaska, we have oil in the Middle East, we have oil off shore, we have oil in shale in Colorado, we have oil in Africa, we have oil in South America, and yet none of it is tapped out yet. If the world were out of oil than we wouldn't be driving around right now, we wouldn't be able to go to any gas station and tank up like its water. The United States has 800 million barrels of oil, in oil reserve and you think we're "out of oil". Hit me up with a PM and I'll give you an address to send that BC bud down to.

There's no alternative fuel thus far primarily because the government is controlling most of the research. The government doesn't care if it spends a billion dollars of money on research and produce no results, because hell its no their money. Its very true that the oil lobbyists are helping to hold back alternative fuel sources but that was my point, THE PRIVATE SECTOR, will eventually get heavily into the race for an alternative fuel source. Bill Gates would have no interest in oil profits and would have to spend money out of his own pocket to research. You better believe if a private citizen is spending money, they better see results or there's going to be hell to pay. Basically the private sector of the market is more efficient and better at producing more or less everything, than the government and it always will be.

You have much to learn about business, politics, and the United States in general, my friend.

[post=550753]Quoted post[/post]​

Ummm..once again. No.

So the US has 800 Million barrels, and a few off shore rigs. Big fucking deal. 10 years tops and you guys are dry.

The fact is that the worlds "accessable" oils are pretty much gone. The rest lie in Oilsands, which the majority are almost impossible to access (Arctic areas and in the middle of the ocean [deeper than anyone has ever drilled for] to name a few) and will cost TRILLIONS to extract. We have the Alberta Oilsands up here and they are pretty much dry already..majority of our operations are moving North.

Christ...why do you think gas prices are rising as high as they are right now? The war? you gotta be fucking joking. There is a much bigger picture here.


Sure, the world has Tons of oil. Go get it! Problem is, no one can...it's too costly and quite frankly we don't have the resources. Time to look for a new fuel.

 

[totalburnout]

Originally posted by adnoh@Sep 7 2005, 01:47 PM
Ummm..once again. No.

So the US has 800 Million barrels, and a few off shore rigs. Big fucking deal. 10 years tops and you guys are dry.

The fact is that the worlds "accessable" oils are pretty much gone. The rest lie in Oilsands, which the majority are almost impossible to access (Arctic areas and in the middle of the ocean [deeper than anyone has ever drilled for] to name a few) and will cost TRILLIONS to extract. We have the Alberta Oilsands up here and they are pretty much dry already..majority of our operations are moving North.

Christ...why do you think gas prices are rising as high as they are right now? The war? you gotta be fucking joking. There is a much bigger picture here.


Sure, the world has Tons of oil. Go get it! Problem is, no one can...it's too costly and quite frankly we don't have the resources. Time to look for a new fuel.

Bud, when push comes to shove we'll drill in Alaska and say fuck the carribu. We have oil, we have oil at our finger tips, we have even more oil thats on protected land right now but if need be they'd open the land.

We have atleast 25 years left on oil. Oil prices are rising so high because of OPEC withholding oil causing a false draught. They said we were out of oil in the 1970's gas crisis when the truth was that OPEC was purposely withholding oil supplies to increase the demand and price. The world is working in systems and its happening all over again.

No one with any sort of intelligence is saying that we're out of oil, they're saying that if we don't find an alternative fuel source WE WILL BE out of oil within the next quarter century.

800 million barrels of oil not being a big deal? You're kidding me, right? Thats the United States oil reserve to run its line of defense for the duration of a war. There's more than enough there, its just in reserve for military purposes.

Seriously, screw your head on tight. This is nothing more than price gouging at best. OPEC is releasing a limited supply, especially because we're fighting their islamic brothers and culture in general and pipelines being cut off by the hurricane. From a business stand point, they're just milking what they can out of people right now because people are willing to pay it.

 

[Celerity]

In Peak Oil, you guys should really read that forum that was posted here before (www.peakoil.com) There you will find both arguments - Pro and Con.

Peak Oil means that we aren't finding any NEW sources of hydrocarbon, and non as easily accessed as crude oil.

Peak Oil DOES NOT mean that we are out of oil. Unfortunately, there is no way of telling before a well goes dry. Just one day, it stops pumping. By best figures, that is 25 years away from today in the largest of Saudi oil fields in the market. It could be tomorrow for all we really know.

We had to push for alternatives in the 70s, we have to push for it now. When oil became cheap again we fell right back into our habits - Gas guzzlers and consumer negligence. That's why we have Nissans now that get 15 mpg. I thought 2000 was bad with fuel economy. Even Honda is guilty of it - The Si Civic is getting 27 mpg in the city. If my Civic got that I would SHIT, and the new one is only marginally faster than mine.

Too many people, too many cars, too lax an attitude. Republican or Democrat - you HAVE to be able to agree with that, and be able to do something - anything - to make the situation better.

If you don't, you're just sitting in a chair playing with yourself and blaming other people.

-> Steve

 

[phyregod]

Originally posted by Celerity@Sep 7 2005, 03:26 PM
If you don't, you're just sitting in a chair playing with yourself and blaming other people.
-> Steve

[post=550810]Quoted post[/post]​

Point fingers and scream... what the hell else can WE do?? nothing. nothing at all.

 

[posol]

at least playing with yout self, you accomplish something....

 

[Celerity]

Horseshit ! I feel pity on those who think that they can't do anything.

Just plain simple crushed souls and hopeless boredom. Screw that, that's not my bag.

Just by choosing to have fun with Hondas we've all chosen to do SOMETHING. And that's slight. I'm not saying I expect people to light torches and take the streets - I AM saying that we have to be more aware of our impact on others. We need to be a bit more conservative (In terms of conserving what we have) and the problem WILL get better.

It's gotten better already. And it will continue to get better.

Use a dime-sized drop of shampoo - Use less toothpaste. Don't be wasteful at the dinner table, turn off lights when you're not using them. All of these things do wonders. IF you have replaced your incandescent bulbs in your house with flourescents, You've done SOMETHING. Keep it up, and it will make a difference.

-> Steve

Nothing you can do ? EVERYTHING you do makes a difference.

 

[posol]

what are you talking about?

 

[Battle Pope]

it's the little things.

 

[Guy]

Steve is on the right tract with his last comment. Doing little things like keeping your Air conditioning a few degrees higher, when everybody does it, can make an immense difference with regards to consumed energy.
Aside from that we as a nation are going to have to realize that we cannot always do what is best for out pocket books. Solar paneling, while expensive initially, can make a diffence in saving fossil fuels. Same goes with using technologies like geothermal pumps. American's have massive amounts of discressionary income, and sooner or later we will have to realize that there are better ways to spend our money than buying a 60' flatscreen television (as opposed to a 42').
The problem is the same here as it is everywhere else: Americans are simply too shortsighted to look beyond the short term, and it is that flaw which will ultimately force fundamental changes in a short period of time, making us very uncomfortable. Foresight and smart spending could help ease the inevitable transition, but if it isnt too late already, there seems like little that will change our current path.

 

[adnoh]

Bud, when push comes to shove we'll drill in Alaska and say fuck the carribu. We have oil, we have oil at our finger tips, we have even more oil thats on protected land right now but if need be they'd open the land.

The problem is not that the oil isn't there, it's that the US doesn't have the resources or Capital to extract it. You're talking about, literally, Billions of dollars to set up an operation in Alaska. And how much better off will you be? You won't be better off at all, because that's simply not enough oil to meet the demand of the US. We have the Alberta Oilsands....are we better off? Fuck no. We're skrewed just like everyone else. Plus, no one in their right mind would go and drill for this shit considering the cost involved. It just wouldn't be worth it. And dealing with Oilsands operations is a far cry from being economic, and also a fuck-load more hurtful on the environment. It's a double-edged sword.

We have atleast 25 years left on oil. Oil prices are rising so high because of OPEC withholding oil causing a false draught. They said we were out of oil in the 1970's gas crisis when the truth was that OPEC was purposely withholding oil supplies to increase the demand and price. The world is working in systems and its happening all over again.

Ok, thats part of the problem. But have you also noticed that there has been a steady increase in gas prices since the 70's??? Supply and demand? definately, but not the only factor. The fact is that, like Steve mentioned, there is no more new deposits of Hydrocarbon..meaning No More New Oil. This means a once-thought renewable resource is no longer renewable. We are dealing in finite time, which is pretty much up.

No one with any sort of intelligence is saying that we're out of oil, they're saying that if we don't find an alternative fuel source WE WILL BE out of oil within the next quarter century.

25 years? Sounds like we're out of Oil.

800 million barrels of oil not being a big deal? You're kidding me, right? Thats the United States oil reserve to run its line of defense for the duration of a war. There's more than enough there, its just in reserve for military purposes.

And then what?

Seriously, screw your head on tight. This is nothing more than price gouging at best. OPEC is releasing a limited supply, especially because we're fighting their islamic brothers and culture in general and pipelines being cut off by the hurricane. From a business stand point, they're just milking what they can out of people right now because people are willing to pay it.

But there will be a time in the extremely near future when the business standpoint won't mean shit because we'll all be out of Oil.

The brass tax of it is that the world needs to suck it up, and admit that we're out. If we are dealing with 25 years until we're out...we're fucking out now!...what is 25 years anyways?? Nothing. As I said, we need to work on alternatives NOW. And the US government as well as governments all across the world just don't seem to really comprehend this. And it's too bad because the technology for alternative fuel sources is there, but since the US and alot of dominating powers in the world are run by oil tycoons, nothing is going to happen until it's too late.

 

[totalburnout]

Listen, Adnoh, when it all boils down to it we're not out of oil like you're proposing. We're not the near to being out of oil. If we were then it wouldn't be readily available to everyone still. If we were about to run out of oil, then the oil tycoons would be pouring billions of dollars into jumping on the bandwagon for alternative fuel sources.

Think logically, in laymens terms like you said before. No more oil and then there's no more money to be made from it. Do you think that these people making billions would just sit there and watch the oil run out? They're not worried. When we come CLOSE to tapping out are natural resources, than you'll see the major shift to alternative fuel sources by the oil industry, but obviously it hasn't happened yet so we're not that close.

What Celerity and Guy have proposed is to more or less, aid in the solution and not become part of the problem. If we conserve and force oil companies to make the shift to alternative fuel sources, prematurely, than the prices will drop dramatically.

I for one, as a business man, know that when oil companies feel that the end is near they're not going to stand by and throw their hands up in the air and go "Oh no we're all out," they're going to have a new form of energy up their sleeve and change markets.

 

[phyregod]

I'm telling you, nuclear power is where its at...

Uranium is plentiful.. and you don't need much to power a fucking city. We run out of fossil fuel? so friggin what. We've got 10,000 years worth of uranium laying around. We can drive electric cars.

 

[totalburnout]

Originally posted by phyregod@Sep 7 2005, 11:06 PM
I'm telling you, nuclear power is where its at...

Uranium is plentiful.. and you don't need much to power a fucking city. We run out of fossil fuel? so friggin what. We've got 10,000 years worth of uranium laying around. We can drive electric cars.

[post=551110]Quoted post[/post]​

Controlling it is the issue, not harvesting it. Toxic man.

 

[Guy]

Eh, truth be told i dont think we will ever run out of oil. What will happen is that the cost of oil will ultimately rise to a point where it no longer become viable to extract it. So running out isnt the problem, it is just the cost it will become to get it.

 

[phunky.buddha]

Originally posted by Celerity+Sep 7 2005, 10:15 AM-->

Same with Halliburton - Because when a company like this grows to be THAT huge at some point it will fall - And when it falls, thousands of companies across the country will open up to take over their contracts and dropped business.

[post=550667]Quoted post[/post]​

Hey now, some of my 401k is still tied up in Halliburton stock funds. For the country, I hope they don't do well- but for myself, I hope that they continue to do so. I'm watching their activities though, and I'm going to try and time a stock pullout when the time is right- either that or as soon as Bush gets ready to leave office.

Originally posted by pissedoffsol@Sep 7 2005, 10:46 AM
no one on this board makes enough money to be a rebulican.
seriously, unless your rich, the party is not in your best interest

[post=550688]Quoted post[/post]​

I don't agree.

Me = Republican = good for my job and field
Me = not Republican = good for my personal political alignment (but I'm not really Democrat either)

So yeah, I'm not rich- but it's a good idea to support the Republican party when you're in my field of work. Hell, that goes with the last company I worked for too.

Originally posted by pissedoffsol@Sep 7 2005, 11:51 AM
right. women are the root of all evil. its been mathematically proven

[post=550717]Quoted post[/post]​

I love that one. Geek out!

Originally posted by pissedoffsol@Sep 7 2005, 12:17 PM
i think i'm done with these politcial hreads.

[post=550748]Quoted post[/post]​

I normally stay the hell away from them. Notice that I still don't really discuss politics when I post in these threads.

Originally posted by adnoh@Sep 7 2005, 01:15 PM
Ummm...dude.... The world is out of Oil...has been for a LONG time...this is nothing new. Where is the alternative fuel? Nowhere. Why? US Oil corporations won't allow it. Why? Obvious.....will take a large chunk out of Oil Profits.

Sometimes the best viewpoint to have is that of the Layman's. You get WAYYY to wrapped up with details.

Never true. It's always more complex than you think.

Originally posted by New2TheCarScene@Sep 7 2005, 12:23 PM
The world is NOT out of oil and will not be out of oil for atleast another quarter century. We have oil in Texas, we have oil in Alaska, we have oil in the Middle East, we have oil off shore, we have oil in shale in Colorado, we have oil in Africa, we have oil in South America, and yet none of it is tapped out yet. If the world were out of oil than we wouldn't be driving around right now, we wouldn't be able to go to any gas station and tank up like its water. The United States has 800 million barrels of oil, in oil reserve and you think we're "out of oil". Hit me up with a PM and I'll give you an address to send that BC bud down to.

[post=550753]Quoted post[/post]​

Originally posted by adnoh@Sep 7 2005, 12:47 PM
Ummm..once again. No.

So the US has 800 Million barrels, and a few off shore rigs. Big fucking deal. 10 years tops and you guys are dry.

The fact is that the worlds "accessable" oils are pretty much gone. The rest lie in Oilsands, which the majority are almost impossible to access (Arctic areas and in the middle of the ocean [deeper than anyone has ever drilled for] to name a few) and will cost TRILLIONS to extract. We have the Alberta Oilsands up here and they are pretty much dry already..majority of our operations are moving North.

Christ...why do you think gas prices are rising as high as they are right now? The war? you gotta be fucking joking. There is a much bigger picture here.

Sure, the world has Tons of oil. Go get it! Problem is, no one can...it's too costly and quite frankly we don't have the resources. Time to look for a new fuel.

[post=550769]Quoted post[/post]​

Uh.......... no. I worked in the management level at Halliburton. There's tons out there- trust me. Yes, it's more expensive to get to it- but it's NOT inaccessible by a LONG shot. Following current usage trends- internal company projections mark the world oil supply as extremely healthy, even 50 years from now.

No, we don't currently have the technology on the market to drill the super deep oceans areas with tons of oil, but that doesn't mean there aren't equipment designs in the works already to get to them. The technology is there- it's just not on the market yet.

On recent gas prices- it's all about the refineries. The last week was obviously because of Hurricane Katrina knocking everyone on the coast offline for a while, but most of the price increase this year has just been from demand. The refineries have all been running at full capacity, and demand is higher than they can supply right now. Build more refineries or make them more efficient, and your supply will go up- and prices will go down. Prices aren't up because we don't have enough oil. Prices are up because there's not enough oil being processed into product that we can use at the pump.

Originally posted by adnoh@Sep 7 2005, 09:14 PM
Ok, thats part of the problem. But have you also noticed that there has been a steady increase in gas prices since the 70's??? Supply and demand? definately, but not the only factor. The fact is that, like Steve mentioned, there is no more new deposits of Hydrocarbon..meaning No More New Oil. This means a once-thought renewable resource is no longer renewable. We are dealing in finite time, which is pretty much up.

[post=551045]Quoted post[/post]​

C'mon. Accounting for inflation and standard of living today when compared to the 70s, if you took the average gas price in the 70s and pulled it forward into today's dollars, you would be paying $3.14 a gallon for regular gas. I think what we've been paying has been pretty cheap in comparison. When you compare the price of gas in a particular time frame to the value of the dollar in that same time frame, gas prices have actually been on a steady decline since the 70s.

Guy@Sep 7 2005, 10:24 PM
Eh, truth be told i dont think we will ever run out of oil. What will happen is that the cost of oil will ultimately rise to a point where it no longer become viable to extract it. So running out isnt the problem, it is just the cost it will become to get it.

[post=551155]Quoted post[/post]​

And that's going to take quite some time.

 

[Prowler]

I'm not going to read all of the posts, because I dont' have the time. But let me tell you this: the news distorts the oil prices so much.
I work at ExxonMobil. I know a bit about prices and processes. Ditch 50+ oil rigs to the gulf. Of course prices are going up. Try to comp millions upon millions of dollars in lost equipment, productivity, employee compensation, etc. There's THOUSANDS of people affected by the hurricane that work for the oil industries. My company is giving thousands and thousands of dollars to each person affected by the disaster.
So go pump up your tank. Part of that money is helping some oil company employees get their lives back together.

 

[Prowler]

Originally posted by Calesta@Sep 7 2005, 10:47 PM
On recent gas prices- it's all about the refineries. The last week was obviously because of Hurricane Katrina knocking everyone on the coast offline for a while, but most of the price increase this year has just been from demand. The refineries have all been running at full capacity, and demand is higher than they can supply right now. Build more refineries or make them more efficient, and your supply will go up- and prices will go down. Prices aren't up because we don't have enough oil. Prices are up because there's not enough oil being processed into product that we can use at the pump.

Yes. Plus with new air quality control issues, like Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel and Low Sulfur MoGas, my refinery paid millions and millions for equipment, along with labor for THREE YEARS to get this equipment installed that is required by law. And I'm at the smallest refinery for ExxonMobil in the Midwest. You want cleaner air, you pay for it at the pump.

 

[phunky.buddha]

and

 

[VTECin5th]

C'mon. Accounting for inflation and standard of living today when compared to the 70s, if you took the average gas price in the 70s and pulled it forward into today's dollars, you would be paying $3.14 a gallon for regular gas. I think what we've been paying has been pretty cheap in comparison. When you compare the price of gas in a particular time frame to the value of the dollar in that same time frame, gas prices have actually been on a steady decline since the 70s.

That is what you want to hear tho.
Last nite i looked up minimum wage avgs and compared minimum wage to the gas price avgs in 1975.
Gas: August 1975 avg: premium $1.26 regular $1.16. [Which was up from $.59]
Sure the gas price DOUBLED, same shock for them right?
Minimum Wage: 1975 2.10
So in 1975, about half of your minimum wage job hourly went to paying for one gallon of gas. Which is about %53.
Gas: August 2005 avg: $3.00+ (low rounded AVG)
Minimum Wage: $5.15
Which is about %61 of your hourly minimum wage job pay now.
So sure, compared to 'inflation' we got it good right?
Gimme a break, quit listening to what the media wants you to hear, and listen for facts, not 'roundabouts'.
Between $.14 and $.51 cents is state+federal taxes depending on where you live.
People who keep comparing this to Europe, they CHOSE to raise tax prices on gas many years ago, so that they didn't pollute their country like we do... and guess what, it worked. They have subways, rails etc, we have City Bus here, nothin special.
I agree with some viewpoints here though, except "Bush is doing a good job", that is only an opinion because some people actually can somehow believe that.
Also, last nite they (CNN) said it costs only 4 Million to start an off shore drilling rig and refinery.

 

[phunky.buddha]

...

This is why I hate these political threads.

Look at the price of gas before the hurricane hit. That would follow your minimum wage argument.

If you look at the value of the dollar compared to the value of gas, you would have your correlation. The amount of minimum wage does not necessarily follow the value of the dollar. Comparing minimum wage to the price of gas isn't the same as comparing the value of the dollar to the price of gas. Minimum wage does not vary directly with inflation.