jackson racing vs. revhard stg. 2 ??

[SPEEDFREAK0920]

all the info. about doing the turbo kit myself moved me towards just getting a complete turbo/charger kit. what kit would be better for a b18b: revhard stage 2 turbo kit with Rev Hard Cast Iron Manifold
Rev Hard NUTEC T3/T04E Hybrid Turbo
Turbo efficient to 450hp
Rev Hard Intercooler 28x6.5x3
NEW Turbo Smart 7psi. (TS-SEMA's Best Product for 2002)
Vortec Blow Off Valve
2.25" Aluminized Mandrel Bent Piping
2.5" Downpipe
Billet Map Diffuser (check valve)
Rev Hard FC (Fuel Controller)
Silicone Hoses & Clamps
Steel Braided -3 Oil Line
Oil Return Line
High Pressure Fuel Line
High Pressure Silicon Hose
Necessary Vacuum Tee's
Necessary Vacuum Lines ....or a complete bolt in jackson racing supercharger? does anyone have any idea how much either of them will make? i've heard that the jrsc makes boost at 2000 rpm and holds it there all the way through the redline. has anyone ever dealt with either of these kits? daily driver,weekend dragger.just trying to get the best bang for my buck.these are my two choices and will order by tomorrow night so help asap would greatly appreciated. thanks for all the help

 

[PHOBIA]

i would get the turbo kit and a different manifold.i have heard a couple of different stories about jr's superchargers.but i have heard bad things about the rev hard manifolds.thats just what i would do.

 

[posol]

turbo > sc

'nuff said

 

[allbottledup]

turbo anyday. Dont even second guess it. Also look at this site. from what i have seen and researched about them (thanks to pissedoffsol) There some damn good kits. www.full-race.com

 

[SPEEDFREAK0920]

after i pay for the turbo kit i won't have ANY money left over to get a new manifold. thanks for all the help . hey allbottled...does your hb b18b still have those same bolt ons?if so,what kind of times are you seeing at the track,if i may ask. thanks again guyz

 

[PHOBIA]

you could sell the manifold and buy /have made another one for about the same price.there is a kid on honda-tech looking for one rightn now.

 

[THEUSED]

Go with the Revhard just make sure to upgrade your internals to lower compression

 

[integraslut78]

The Turbo will own you. Turbo all the way.

 

[TechChris]

Hi

JRSC are not going to give you as much HP as a turbo. It will probably give you about 40 -50 to your engine. They are probably alittle easier to install. You have less risk of blowing your motor, because you cannot crank up the boost. Because with turbos some people seem to think if 10 psi gives me 50 hp, 20 psi will give me oops. Blown motor.But with a properly tuned turbo you can get you some big numbers. You can find some good deals on JRSC if you look. Like for around $1000-$1200. So it all depends what you are looking for.

 

[Rsx-S turbo]

turbo trubo ,

 

[NotUrAverage_Si]

Originally posted by THEUSED@Jul 7 2004, 06:22 PM
Go with the Revhard just make sure to upgrade your internals to lower compression

or better yet save up for an engine management system (Hondata, AEM EMS, there are a few others also).

NEW Turbo Smart 7psi. (TS-SEMA's Best Product for 2002)

Also, is this refering to the wastegate? Cause I didn't see the word "wastegate" mentioned in your post.
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btw, go with the turbo.

 

[SPEEDFREAK0920]

thanks for all the replies. has anyone else heard about the rev hard manifold being shitty? i hope not thanx for the help

 

[posol]

its fine for the power you're going to make with the kit.

spend more money on getting it tuned properly instead of upgrading a manifold. you'll make more, safer, power that way anyway.

look into uberdata/hondata + dsm 450's or something instead of those shit ass fmu's.

also, check out importparts.com they have a build your own turbo kit where you can mix and match stuff

 

[PHOBIA]

its not street legal, thats the only down side. what ever happend to the guy making the carb turbo stickers.i remeber he had them for sale a while back.ill be all over it.
or if that same guy can make motor swap stickers.im really desperate to get my hands on one."ok ok enough thread jacking" is the j super charger street legal?

 

[posol]

answer to carb: MOVE OUT OF THAT GOD FORSAKEN PLACE KNOWN AS CALI

 

[PHOBIA]

i know im working on that.but for the time being good sun and fast cars....

 

[[Freemantle]]

Originally posted by TechChris@Jul 7 2004, 08:32 PM
Hi

JRSC are not going to give you as much HP as a turbo.  It will probably give you about 40 -50 to your engine.  They are probably alittle easier to install.  You have less risk of blowing your motor, because you cannot crank up the boost.  Because with turbos some people seem to think if 10 psi gives me 50 hp, 20 psi will give me oops.  Blown motor.But with a properly tuned turbo you can get you some big numbers.  You can find some good deals on JRSC if you look. Like for around $1000-$1200.  So it all depends what you are looking for.

There is this wonderful, wonderful thing that nobody ever seems to mention in their "Turbo vs JRSC" posts (which this is). Yes, I am about to hijack this post. I got the urge.

No matter how many "blown motors" and "thrown rods" xxx street racers get on xxx turbo setups, it all boils down to the actual science happening inside your 4 cylinders. Here are a couple of things that people never think about when choosing a FI setup that they probably should. Things that determine how much boost you can run and how long your system will last.

Replacing your pistons with forged steel and reinforcing the metal in the compression chamber is not the only way to turn up the boost. No offense, but this is the typical American/NASCAR/Ford/GM mentality. I'm sure you could make a titanium block that could sustain 15:1 static compression, but that is neither cost effective or needed.

Here are the things that make an engine good, make an engine strong, and make an engine last:

Filling Efficency: The ability of your compression chamber to completely fill itself on the intake stroke with the most dense air possible. Your dad, "Super2nerTV", and the redneck next door know this as "the powerband". This is the range in the RPMs when your butt-dyno puts a smile on your face. Without changing the internals, this will remain pretty constant for your engine, as it is cheifly determined by your valves, ports, overlap, bore, and stroke.

I'm sure your saiying, "but Nate, if my forced induction setup is forcing air into my cylinders, why does filling efficency matter?"

Because it takes power to get power. Regardless if it's the flow and pressure of exhaust gas, rotational speed of your crankshaft, or the squirt of nitrous in your map-sensor's face, your new powerband will be somewhat reliant on your old one.

Octane Rating: Lets get one thing out of the way.
Running a higher octane will never make your a/f mixture harder to ignite, ever!

okay, with that out of the way...

Running higher octane won't do jack unless your timing/boost pressure is tuned for it!
My best advice is to look up "Octane" on www.howstuffworks.com. In essence, the octane rating of gasoline is just a percentage of Hexane (6 molecule gas) to Octane (8 molecule gas). One of those two substances requires a higher specific heat to ignite. I'll give you two guesses. The higher temperature requirements are still nowhere near ignition or combustion temperture.

A/F Ratio: Okay, you've heared myths and sing-song phrases (lean is mean, rich is a b*tch, the closer to detonation the more power). Forget them. All of them. There are so many stupid misconceptions about A/F ratios that it's no wonder somebody new is blowing their b18 every weekend. Dave and the wonderful folks at www.pgmfi.org have brought me a long way from the things I originally believed.

Here is what the basics are:
To burn is to oxidize. Period. No oxygen means no flame, no flame equal no rapid state oxidadtion, no rapid state oxidation means no broken bonds, no broken bonds equals no energy, and no energy equals no fun. We need oxygen.

The more oxygen you include in your mix, the higher your air/fuel ratio climbs. 14.7 is the ideal, gasoline efficent mixture. 14.7 = pure stoich. All the gas and 02 is blown apart and reformed into some icky stuff that either spins a turbine or gets crapped out the back.

This is the important part: Ever put coffee in a styrofoam cup? It takes a long time for that coffee to cool down, dosent it? ever wonder why? Styrofoam isn't some miracle product, in fact, it is more air than anything else. Air requires a lot of energy to raise its temperature just 1 degree centigrade. This means that oxygen is really hard to heat up, and really hard to cool down.

How does this effect us? Show me an fuel setup that completely atomizes (mixes) the A/F ratio. It dosen't exist. MPFI brought it a lot closer than we ever were in the carburated days, but it still isn't perfect. The point is, there will always be a little change left over, a little unburn oxygen. Just think, there are more molecules in your engine's compression stroke that there will be people to walk the earth, living, dead and unborn. As I have implied, this extra oxygen gets really hot, like 1000-1400 degrees F. The more air the more heat.

Heat = Expansion = - Clearances
This talks about your rod, piston and sleeve expansion, and the beatutiful love your piston will make with the sleeve or head as these components swell from the heat caused by excess o2.

Heat = ....Heat
Your gasoline mixture has a set temerature at which it will spontaneously combust. As the piston travels north on the compression stroke, the mixture is heated even further from the compression. If the mixture ignites before TDC you will get a pre-ignition condition, otherwise known as knock. The explosion of the gasses creates a premature flamewave that exerts a force in all directions as the pistion still tries to compress the mixture. In laymans turns, it pushes down on the piston that is still supposed to be traveling up, and further down the crankshaft pistons that are being forced down by their explosions that have already happened are prematurey being pushed up. This preignition tries to reverse the cycle of the crankshaft. Tensile load on the rods and their respective bearings launch through the roof, until said tensile load becomes too great and your rods get launched through your block.

I've already talked way more than I want to. Look up "Timing" somwhere and you will get the rest of the story.

Here are the cliffnotes of what I was trying to get across


- Forged internals, though nice, are ultimatly the caveman's method of running boost. I'm sure you can talk to Jeff at IB or any other respectable tuner and they can tell you of an Integra running a 300whp setup on stock internals, every day.

-14.7 is the ideal mixture assuming every oxygen molecule can find its gasoline buddy. This will never happen. For what we do, assume that you need to run a richer mixture (less than 14.0). Excess oxyegen and the heat it creates will destroy your engine, melt your pistons, and rape your sister far before effective compression from a turbo/supercharger does. In an ideal world, every street racer would buy an ECU to chip themselves or a piggyback/standalone unit of some sort before he started looking at AEM intakes. Until you perfect your fuel and ignition curves, you are not a tuner, you are a wrencher.

-There are too many myths about what octane is. High octane is always good, but don't expect it to improve your E.T. unless you need it/ have tuned yourself to need it.

-Your powerband on an unmolested engine will always be about the same due to how well your engine fills the combustion chamber at certian engine speeds. VTEC kids will hit this hotspot twice.


Time to go get a Pepsi.

 

[PHOBIA]

goddamn....

 

[JDMilan]

nice C&P

 

[phunky.buddha]

Originally posted by [Freemantle
,Jul 11 2004, 04:55 PM] Time to go get a Pepsi.

I don't agree with all of that (most is good), but this... I definitely don't agree with!



Drink Coke or Dr. Pepper.

Good write-up, by the way.