saturn_boy96
88 C1V1C 53D4N DR1V3R
yes, iam sure there are amreican names on the list too. i wonder if John Kerry is connected?
hahaha, this thread got way off topic.
hahaha, this thread got way off topic.
kerry is fucked
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Dude come on, there is no way to run a nation and please all the people all the time. And you cannot make policy that is going to keep peace everywhere on earth. Some times on the grand scheme of things, something is going to fall through the cracks, and we just hope it doesn't come back and bite us on the ass.
And everyone that drives a petroleum vehicle has "ties to the Bin Laden family".
Sabz5150
FALCON PUNCH!!!
Exactly. And we should move on and not mull over it for years to come. I know you can't please everyone all the time, nobody can. However, Bush was aware that what he said in his state of the union address was not true. He should at least take the blame for his own actions. Take all the blame for 9-11? Surely not.
Sabz5150
FALCON PUNCH!!!
U.S. Firms Aiding Iraqi Oil Industry
Commerce With Baghdad Grows Quietly as Washington Urges Regime Change
By Colum Lynch
Special to The Washington Post
Sunday, February 20, 2000; Page A23
UNITED NATIONS, Feb. 17—Four years ago, when he was director of central intelligence, John M. Deutch headed up American efforts to overthrow Iraqi President Saddam Hussein. Today, Deutch sits on the board of Schlumberger Ltd., a multinational company that is helping Baghdad service its oil rigs.
As secretary of defense during the Persian Gulf War, Richard B. Cheney played a key role in the U.S.-led military coalition that forced Iraq to retreat from Kuwait. But as chief executive officer of Halliburton Co., a Dallas-based maker of oil equipment, Cheney recently held a major stake in Dresser-Rand and Ingersoll-Dresser Pump Co., two American players in the reconstruction of Iraq's oil industry. While the United States and Britain wage almost daily airstrikes against military installations in northern and southern Iraq, U.S. companies, executives and even some architects of American policy toward Iraq are doing business with Saddam Hussein's government and helping to rebuild its battered oil industry. Though perfectly legal, the growing U.S.-Iraqi commerce has been kept quiet by both sides because it seems to fly in the face of Washington's commitment to "regime change" in Baghdad and Saddam Hussein's claim to be defying the world's lone superpower. The United Nations also helps both countries avoid embarrassment by treating the business arrangements as confidential.
The trade is permitted under the "oil for food" deal, a humanitarianexemption from the U.N. trade embargo imposed on Iraq after the 1990 invasion of Kuwait. It allows Iraq to sell oil and use the proceeds, under U.N. supervision, to purchase food, medicine and other humanitarian goods, as well as spare parts to keep the oil flowing.
Placing bids through overseas subsidiaries and affiliates, more than a dozen U.S. firms have signed millions of dollars in contracts with Baghdad for oil-related equipment since the summer of 1998, according to diplomats, industry officials and U.N. documents.
"The United States is the cradle of the international oil industry," said James Placke, who tracks Persian Gulf oil production for Cambridge Energy Research Associates, a consulting firm. "A lot of the equipment in Iraq's oil industry was originally made in America, and if you want spare parts, you go back to the original supplier."
Most U.S. oil companies have been prohibited by Baghdad from directly purchasing Iraqi crude since the United States bombed Iraq during Operation Desert Fox in December 1998. But Iraq nevertheless has emerged in the past year as the fastest growing source of U.S. oil imports, according to Larry Goldstein, president of the Petroleum Industry Research Foundation.
American companies, he said, now purchase about 700,000 of the 2 million barrels of oil exported daily by Iraq, mainly through foreign middlemen who load the Iraqi crude and transport it directly to American ports, primarily in the Gulf of Mexico.
"The Chevrons and the Exxons of this world have to buy from the Russians, the French and the Chinese traders," said Goldstein. But, he added, "the U.S. spare parts industry is too dominant to ignore."
After approving the oil-for-food exemption in 1996, the U.N. Security Council gradually raised the amount of oil Iraq was allowed to sell, and on Dec. 17 it removed the ceiling.
In June 1998, the 15-nation Security Council voted to allow Iraq to buy up to $300 million in spare parts every six months. The council is considering a proposal to double that limit.
According to U.S. government figures, American firms account for only a tiny share of the nearly $10 billion in trade that has been conducted under the oil-for-food exemption. U.S. citizens have received licenses to export about $15 million of oil-related spare parts and $400 million of food, medicine and water treatment equipment to Iraq, according to the State Department.
But those figures do not count most products purchased by Iraq from American subsidiaries abroad. This indirect U.S.-Iraqi trade is tracked by the United Nations, which must approve all the contracts. But little information about it has been made public.
The U.N. humanitarian program for Iraq maintains a Web site that lists contracts by number, with a brief description of the goods involved and the country--but not the company--selling them to Iraq. According to this, the United States has been responsible for only 2 out of 2,080 contracts for oil spare parts submitted to the United Nations for approval. France, China and Russia, by contrast, submitted a total of 746 contracts.
America's real share of this trade, while unclear, is certainly far greater. Until recently, visitors to the Web site could search for a company name and then call up the contract numbers associated with that company, allowing cross-referencing between contracts and companies. The search engine was shut down last week after U.N. officials learned that The Washington Post had used it to investigate U.S. companies doing business with Iraq through foreign subsidiaries.
John Mills, spokesman for the U.N. Office of the Iraq Program, declined to comment on the extent of U.S. trade with Iraq, saying it was proprietary trade information.
According to diplomats and the Web site, American firms that have done business with Iraq, directly or through subsidiaries, include such petroleum industry giants as Halliburton, the world's largest oil field service company; Schlumberger, the second largest oil field servicer; the Fisher-Rosemount unit of Emerson Electric Co. in St. Louis; the Hamilton Sundstrand unit of United Technologies in Windsor Locks, Conn.; and Baker Hughes Inc. of Houston.
Deutch, the former CIA director who sits on the board of Schlumberger, and officials at the firm's New York headquarters did not respond to requests for comment on their dealings with Iraq. A Halliburton spokesman, Guy Marcus, confirmed that two of his firm's former joint ventures--Dresser-Rand and Ingersoll-Dresser Pump--conducted business with Baghdad. "The joint ventures sold spare parts to Iraq through European subsidiaries," he said.
Marcus added, however, that Halliburton's share of both joint ventures was sold in the last two months to Ingersoll-Rand of Woodcliff Lake, N.J., which now wholly owns them. He also said that Cheney, the former secretary of defense, "was not involved in the management of either joint venture and was not involved in the decision to make such sales" to Iraq.
According to one diplomat at the United Nations, Dresser-Rand and Ingersoll-Dresser Pump signed $29 million in contracts for spare parts with Iraq through affiliates in Austria, France, Germany and Italy. Marcus said he did not know whether that figure was accurate.
Peg Hashem, a spokeswoman for Hamilton Sundstrand, confirmed that a French subsidiary, Dosapro Milton Roy, sold pumps for Iraqi water treatment plants in a contract worth "under $1 million." She said it was also possible that the firm had sold additional equipment to Iraq.
Spokesmen for Dresser-Rand, Dresser-Ingersoll Pump Co. and Baker Hughes did not respond to requests for comment on their ties to Iraq. But a Fisher-Rosemount spokesman, Walt Sharp, acknowledged that it has sold equipment to Iraq. Although he was not sure of the value of the contracts, he said, all the deals were approved by the Treasury Department and a U.N. Security Council sanctions committee.
Indeed, Diplomats said Washington has been a greater obstacle for American businesses than Baghdad. The United States has placed "holds" on more than 1,000 contracts valued at $1.5 billion under the oil-for-food program, including some held by American companies. A review of 22 Fisher-Rosemount contracts, for example, showed that the United States had held up eight and approved seven; the remainder were pending or had been canceled.
"We don't play favorites," said a State Department official.
© Copyright 2000 The Washington Post Company
Gulf War Vets Home Page
And now you know... the rest of the story.
94RedSiGal
Senior Member
BTW... a late Happy Presidents' Day to everyone! I just got this pic emailed to me by the bass player in the Dead Kennedys. B)
dohcvtec_accord
WRX Sellout
This theory has NOT been disproven. Far from it. Identical twins are not identical in every way.
Can you link to anything to back this up? In any case, saying that "no one is born gay" might have an element of truth to it, since society places alot of pressure (or did) on being heterosexuals, mostly due to bible-thumpers and conservatives feeling that this is the only acceptable lifestyle that one can lead. Once homosexual people start maturing and exploring their feelings and emotions, they'll discover that the societal pressures on their sexual orientation aren't as strong as their sexual feelings, and will start admitting to themselves and other people that they don't swing toward heterosexuality.
In essence, you're saying that gay people are gay because they want to be. That each and every gay person is doing it because they "learned" that behavior, or were pressured into it, or because they enjoy not conforming to society's standards. While a few people may fall into those categories, I assure you that the majority of homosexuals didn't choose to be riduculed and/or persecuted by people like you who feel that homosexuality is a "disease" or "affliction" that isn't normal. These people are attracted to members of the same sex in the same way that you are attracted to members of the opposite sex. I won't be surprised when science is able to cut through the rhetoric bullshit spewed by the reactionary right and offer proof that homosexuality exists for the same genetic reasons as heterosexuality.
94RedSiGal
Senior Member
Klaus sent it to me.
h22bubbleback
Senior Member
omg all this bitchin in this forum is hella crazy...
all i have to say is fuck 3rd world countries..if they could bomb us, they would take it to the next level.
and we need to bomb the shyt out of iraq and al-quida fawkers...yes we killed many innocent people probally....but saved alot more doing so...would u liberal pussies like to see every other city on america get bomb?
u "peace in the middle east" fucks have no idea how 9-11 was..yea u saw news coverage...i was there. i saw 100+ people die in front of me with my own eyes, the people who had ne part of that should die, there familys should die, they should all die. And u people who think your "americans" who want to stop all this shyt Bush is doing, ur just as bad as them,would u like them to get away with it so it can happen 20 mores times?...
all i have to say is fuck 3rd world countries..if they could bomb us, they would take it to the next level.
and we need to bomb the shyt out of iraq and al-quida fawkers...yes we killed many innocent people probally....but saved alot more doing so...would u liberal pussies like to see every other city on america get bomb?
u "peace in the middle east" fucks have no idea how 9-11 was..yea u saw news coverage...i was there. i saw 100+ people die in front of me with my own eyes, the people who had ne part of that should die, there familys should die, they should all die. And u people who think your "americans" who want to stop all this shyt Bush is doing, ur just as bad as them,would u like them to get away with it so it can happen 20 mores times?...
Originally posted by 94RedSiGal+Feb 17 2004, 04:37 PM-->
Klaus sent it to me.
That's good times. You'd never know it from the way I view politics, but I grew up on DK, as well as Black Flag, Bad Brains, etc...now those were good times
Swift Tuner
Member
Whoa.....Are you familiar With the Iraq Situation.....Have you seen the fottage of Sadam Gassing an ENTIRE VILLAGE OF OVER 2,000 PEOPLE?!?!?!?! And then he walks around looking at all the dead "fellow country men". He looks at a dead (must be 2 month old) baby lying in the street next to it's mother, with its toungue sticking out and eyes bugging out, and he points to it , smiles and gives a thumbs up......Yeah......THE UNITED STATS IS THE MONSTER RIGHT??
(little delay, but just saw the thread) :sleep:
saturn_boy96
88 C1V1C 53D4N DR1V3R
yes it has. identical twins are genetically identical. therefore if homosexuality is genetic then they would both have to be homosexual. abd this "theory" has been proven.
unlike evolution/ homosexuality/ election fraud...
Sabz5150
FALCON PUNCH!!!
Okay... then by your logic, since Osama bin Laden was the mastermind of 9-11, we should kill his family... who gives significant contributions (READ: MONEY) to W and the Bush family. Also, Muhammad Atta... the ringleader of the group of people that actually flew the planes... who was given an undisclosed wire transfer of $100,000 by Pakistan... who are our friends, who also admit to selling nuclear weapons and technology on the black market. The same thing we said that Saddam would do.
The planes that were hijacked on 9-11 were known to be hijacked for 34 minutes. If a plane does not respond in ten minutes, fighters are scrambled. Ten minutes is the maximum time allowed before fighters take the air. Our fighters stayed on the ground for over half an hour! Waiting that long is literally unprecendeted, no other hijacking situation in US history took that long.
Why?
For those who did not hear it before. Tuskegee. Anyway, do you know that during this war, over 70 metric tons of depeted uranium has been used in weapons against Iraq? Do you know what happens when these weapons strike? Well, besides penetrating every armor known to man, the uranium is blasted to dust. This dust floats through the air and contaminates anything it contacts (Think Chernobyl here). Soil, water, food, people... all of them come in contact with dangerous amounts of radioactive material. Cancer rates and birth defects in newborns are shyrocketing.
Then there's Bush's Bunker Buster missile. The "mini-nuke" you've heard about. The first new class of nuclear weapon since the Cold War. Three of these things equal the force of the atomic bombs dropped on Japan in World War II. These are NUCLEAR MISSILES. We are going to use NUCLEAR MISSILES on a country.
Why?
"When we talk about war, we're really talking about peace." George W. Bush
"War is peace." George Orwell - Nineteen Eighty-Four
"On the question of going to Baghdad. If you remeber the Vietnam war, we had no international legitimacy for what we did. As a result we first of all lost the battle, world public opinion and eventually we lost the battle at home. In the Gulf war, we had great international legitimacy in the form of eight United Nations resolutions. Every one of which said 'Kick Iraq out of Kuwait'. Did not say one word about going into Iraq, taking Baghdad, conquering the whole country and hanging Saddam Hussein. That's point number one. Point number two, had we gone on to Baghdad, I don't believe the French would have gone, and I'm quite sure the Arab coalition would not have gone. The coalition would have ruptured and the only people who would have gone would have been the United Kingdom and the United States of America. And oh by the way I think we'd still be there, we'd be like a dinosaur in a tarpit. We could have not gotten out and we'd still be the occupying power and we'd be paying 100% of all the costs to administer all of Iraq." General Norman Schwartzkopf, during Daddy Bush's administration. Goddamnit if he wasn't right on ALL counts.
dohcvtec_accord
WRX Sellout
Originally posted by saturn_boy96@Feb 18 2004, 12:03 PM
yes it has. identical twins are genetically identical. therefore if homosexuality is genetic then they would both have to be homosexual. abd this "theory" has been proven.
unlike evolution/ homosexuality/ election fraud...
It may or may not be completely determined by genetics. You still haven't offered any sort of proof of your claim of homosexuality NOT being genetic.
From the Proactive Genetics website:
And an excerpt from this page:
saturn_boy96
88 C1V1C 53D4N DR1V3R
unless you are saying that environment can influence a gay person into becoming straight. but if that is true then why not the converse?
dohcvtec_accord
WRX Sellout
Where did that quote come from?
La_Pieuvre
Senior Member
I find it hilarious how y'all can get in such a big argument over politics.
Honestly, nobody gives a fuck. If you really have something worth saying, do it by actually going out and vote.
Honestly, nobody gives a fuck. If you really have something worth saying, do it by actually going out and vote.
saturn_boy96
88 C1V1C 53D4N DR1V3R
here is another study. the other one quoted a lot of religion that i know would have offended people.
click here
Slammed90Lude
Senior Member
yeah i just have a small logical piece to say about this- call me crazy, but why would genes mutate to a form that prevents them from being passed on? if people are really born gay and it is an uncontrollable aspect of their gentic makeup, how did it begin? why would someone's gentic makeup suddenly change to a form that results in a dead end
