kerry is fucked

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Originally posted by 92b16vx@Feb 18 2004, 06:25 PM
Why did Walt Disney throw lemmings off a cliff?

So another company could make a best-selling yet aggrivating game.
 
This "Tuskeegee" bullshit is getting on my nerves.

here's the deal. In the 1940's a group of scientist wanted to know the long term effects of syphilys. They gathered a group of subjects ALREADY INFECTED WITH THE DISEASE in Tuskeegee, Al and followed their health for over 20 years. They didn't treat the illness.

While this is not anything to condone, I do not see ANY correlation between that deplorable act and dropping biological/chemical weapons on your own people w/ malice aforethought to kill them. an absolute wanton disregard for who would die.

The Coalition's campaign to carry out the UN's will (see Resolution 1441) NEVER targeted anything but military targets. We cannot be held responsible if the person in charge of the Regimn put his own civilians in harms way in an effort to dissuade our resolve.

Bush didn't lie. I can quote alot of liberal Dems that from 1991-2003 also believed Sadaam an enemy to be delt with because he posed a real threat to the US. John Kerry & Ted Kennedy included.
 
Originally posted by ahedau@Feb 18 2004, 11:40 PM
This "Tuskeegee" bullshit is getting on my nerves.

here's the deal. In the 1940's a group of scientist wanted to know the long term effects of syphilys. They gathered a group of subjects ALREADY INFECTED WITH THE DISEASE in Tuskeegee, Al and followed their health for over 20 years. They didn't treat the illness.

While this is not anything to condone, I do not see ANY correlation between that deplorable act and dropping biological/chemical weapons on your own people w/ malice aforethought to kill them. an absolute wanton disregard for who would die.

The Coalition's campaign to carry out the UN's will (see Resolution 1441) NEVER targeted anything but military targets. We cannot be held responsible if the person in charge of the Regimn put his own civilians in harms way in an effort to dissuade our resolve.

Bush didn't lie. I can quote alot of liberal Dems that from 1991-2003 also believed Sadaam an enemy to be delt with because he posed a real threat to the US. John Kerry & Ted Kennedy included.

US human radiation testing is also well documented. Quite a few of the people that were exposed had no idea what was going on.

While I do agree that what Saddie did was by no means humane and is definitely wrong, our hands are not without blood either.
 
Originally posted by Slammed90Lude@Feb 18 2004, 05:55 PM
yeah i just have a small logical piece to say about this- call me crazy, but why would genes mutate to a form that prevents them from being passed on? if people are really born gay and it is an uncontrollable aspect of their gentic makeup, how did it begin? why would someone's gentic makeup suddenly change to a form that results in a dead end

Separate scientific studies have linked homosexuality in rats to be triggered by overpopulation and also stress during pregnancy. So in regards to your question, maybe gayness in animals is a temporary factor to cause the population levels to drop within a colony.

Google up: "rats stress homosexuality" and also "rats overpopulation homosexuality"
 
Originally posted by 94RedSiGal+Feb 19 2004, 07:31 AM-->
Slammed90Lude
@Feb 18 2004, 05:55 PM
yeah i just have a small logical piece to say about this- call me crazy, but why would genes mutate to a form that prevents them from being passed on? if people are really born gay and it is an uncontrollable aspect of their gentic makeup, how did it begin? why would someone's gentic makeup suddenly change to a form that results in a dead end

Separate scientific studies have linked homosexuality in rats to be triggered by overpopulation and also stress during pregnancy. So in regards to your question, maybe gayness in animals is a temporary factor to cause the population levels to drop within a colony.

Google up: "rats stress homosexuality" and also "rats overpopulation homosexuality"

And we all know how geneticly close rats are to humans, I mean with their complex though process and developed interpersonal relationships with other rats.
 
US human radiation testing is also well documented. Quite a few of the people that were exposed had no idea what was going on.
pitiful behavior...yes...but for the perverted purpose of furthering science. I do NOT condone it. There is still no correlation to Sadaam's actions. Therefore, I'll have to request that you no longer use it or "Tuskeegee" as an argument supporting your position.

I do agree that what Saddie did was by no means humane and is definitely wrong
I'm glad we agree about something
 
Originally posted by ahedau@Feb 19 2004, 08:03 AM
US human radiation testing is also well documented. Quite a few of the people that were exposed had no idea what was going on.
pitiful behavior...yes...but for the perverted purpose of furthering science. I do NOT condone it. There is still no correlation to Sadaam's actions. Therefore, I'll have to request that you no longer use it or "Tuskeegee" as an argument supporting your position.


Was Joseph Mengele furthering science?
 
Originally posted by 92b16vx@Feb 19 2004, 01:56 AM
And we all know how geneticly close rats are to humans, I mean with their complex though process and developed interpersonal relationships with other rats.

Are you really serious? I guess you were too lazy to google up the searches I listed. Our DNA is made up of the same material. Rats and other rodents are the foundations for many tests and studies that eventually make it to humans. From this webpage http://www.vernonjohns.org/nonracists/dvhomo.html :

"Goodman (1987:36) writes that although no specifically homosexual genes have yet been found, it is possible that they do exist. It could be that these genes are related to the susceptibility to stress. More research has to be done in this area.

People become homosexual, bisexual, or heterosexual because of what happens to them partly in their prenatal history, and partly in their postnatal history (Money, 1988:6-7). In the chapter on issues in brain research we discussed the complicated interactions of the sexual system. We saw how important it is that the right sexual hormones be in place at the right time in order for correct human fetal development to occur. In the case of homosexuality there are disturbances in the chemical sequence that results in a different sexual orientation. We have seen how the female brain develops first and that the male brain develops from changes to this female brain. In mammals the specialization of the brain in the male depends on testosterone slowing the developmental pace of the left hemisphere. In the brain development of homosexual men, there has not been a full differentiation of the male brain from the female brain infrastructure that is shared by both sexes. This hormonal imbalance may result from nutritional, medicinal, or endocrine changes. Stress can be a major cause of hormonal imbalance because stress reduces the maternal secretion of testosterone into the bloodstream (Money, 1988:25). Studies, such as the one by Ward (1984, cited in Flor-Henry, 1987:56) on the prenatal stress syndrome in the rat have shown that exposing female rats to stress during the last week of pregnancy results in adult male offspring exhibiting feminized and demasculinized sexual behavior. Instead of the normal rise in fetal male plasma testosterone, that usually takes place on days 17 and 18 after conception, there was a sharp decline. "

And with the way that you human males chase after tail, you are not so developed as you think.... picking up chicks at bars is more about your hormones at work, not as a result of your "complex thought processes" ;) :p
 
I'm not really trying to argu with you, but it just seems sill trying to compare rats to humans in this issue, ok, if a rat dies from eating poison, maybe the human shouldn't eat it, but issues like this I see a lot of "mays" and "could be linked to"s

An this is just funny...

exposing female rats to stress during the last week of pregnancy results in adult male offspring exhibiting feminized and demasculinized sexual behavior.
What, did they run around listening to Depeche Mode, taloking about interior design with a lisp (note:sorry about the stereotypical generaliazation).
 
Originally posted by 92b16vx@Feb 19 2004, 02:21 AM
exposing female rats to stress during the last week of pregnancy results in adult male offspring exhibiting feminized and demasculinized sexual behavior.
What, did they run around listening to Depeche Mode, taloking about interior design with a lisp (note:sorry about the stereotypical generaliazation).

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:




:ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r:
 
Originally posted by 92b16vx@Feb 19 2004, 02:21 AM
I'm not really trying to argu with you, but it just seems sill trying to compare rats to humans in this issue, ok, if a rat dies from eating poison, maybe the human shouldn't eat it, but issues like this I see a lot of "mays" and "could be linked to"s

An this is just funny...

exposing female rats to stress during the last week of pregnancy results in adult male offspring exhibiting feminized and demasculinized sexual behavior.
What, did they run around listening to Depeche Mode, taloking about interior design with a lisp (note:sorry about the stereotypical generaliazation).

I was a science major in high school. The stress/irritation that the pregnant rats were exposed to was bright lights, noise and annoying vibrations. Rat and human fetuses develop in the same manner. The stress affects hormone levels in the mother rats which then affect the fetal brain development. There are different factors in sexual orientation, but many gay people have felt that they were always gay, and studies on their childhood background don't indicate an environmental factor in their orientation. Some sexual orientation is due to childhood trauma also.

It's like cancer, some of it is genetic predisposition, and other times like with John Wayne, is is due to something like exposure to radiation fallout. Many different factors with the same final result.
 
Originally posted by saturn_boy96@Feb 18 2004, 03:34 PM
here is another study. the other one quoted a lot of religion that i know would have offended people.

click here

So, a two-page article that once again doesn't offer any proof (just a few random quotes out of context), that comes from a religion-based website that is ALSO arguing against the Big Bang theory in favor of Creationism? Sorry, but that doesn't really cut it for me.

If you quoted from an even more religious website, I wouldn't be offended, but I also wouldn't accept much of what it had to say, because it would probably be based on some passages from religious text, which can hardly be accepted as proof of anything at all.
 
you just aren't reading what it has to say because you are already biased against it simply because of "religion".

only in 52% of their study did both twins end up gay. 52% that's barely more than half, how can you say that that is conclusive eveidence that homosexuality is genetic.
 
Originally posted by saturn_boy96@Feb 19 2004, 07:02 PM
you just aren't reading what it has to say because you are already biased against it simply because of "religion".

only in 52% of their study did both twins end up gay. 52% that's barely more than half, how can you say that that is conclusive eveidence that homosexuality is genetic.

At the same time, how can you say it isn't? And if you ask me, out of say one hundred twins, you have 52 sets that BOTH end up gay, that is a LARGE number. Now if it was 2 or even 20, ok, but 52 out of a hundred, jesus you can't get odds like that at a horse track.
 
I'm not biased against religion, I'm against using religious-backed statements as proof. For example:

Scientific Proof of Evolution (Against Creationism): Statements 1-543, based on real-world observations, experiments and findings.

Religious Proof of Creationism (Against Evolution): The Bible and/or my religion says God created man.

You could sorta see why I'm biased toward science over religion when it comes to things like this.

And if homosexuality isn't genetic, then maybe it's chemical or has to do with things yet to be discovered. I'd wager anything that homosexuality isn't something that will be discovered to be able to be "cured", undone, or otherwise reversed, and that some people are as naturally (note that word) predisposed to homosexuality as you or I are to heterosexuality.
 
Originally posted by 92b16vx+Feb 19 2004, 02:08 AM-->
@Feb 19 2004, 08:03 AM
US human radiation testing is also well documented. Quite a few of the people that were exposed had no idea what was going on.
pitiful behavior...yes...but for the perverted purpose of furthering science. I do NOT condone it. There is still no correlation to Sadaam's actions. Therefore, I'll have to request that you no longer use it or "Tuskeegee" as an argument supporting your position.


Was Joseph Mengele furthering science?

I thought I was being clear that it was a dispicable (sp?) program but these guys all ALREADY had the desease.

Mengele took healthy people and tortured them. Treatment should not have been withheld, it wasn't proper, but I would hope you can see the diference between Sadaam using bio weapons on Kurds & Mengele torturing Jews during the Holocost.
 
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