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knife edging good or bad hor high rev vtec?

Discussion in 'Engine Building' started by 94_gs-r, Dec 29, 2006.

  1. 94_gs-r

    94_gs-r can you say 260 whp N/A??

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    i am debating on whether or not to knife edge my crank. i have heard good things about it such as faster accelleration and cuts through oil and whatnot but i also heard that its bad for the engine and cuts the life of it in half. if i do get the crank knife edged its getting balanced also along with my rods and everything else, is it true you dont want to knife edge it?
     
  2. 94_gs-r

    94_gs-r can you say 260 whp N/A??

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    so whats a good thing to do with it for street and perform, can i just shave it balance and micropolish it keeping it at least a 1/4" thick?
     
  3. MikeBergy

    MikeBergy Blah blah blah....

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    run a lighter flywheel and clutch. Get some nice lightweight 15 or 16 inch rims while you are at it.
     
  4. Exodus

    Exodus Junior Member

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    Have lightened a little if you'd like, but drastic weight changes are probably not good. It should be balanced no matter what, get a Fluidampr, and get a lightened flywheel, clutch and pressure plate. The flywheels usually are balanced as they're made (at least with better companies). This should help some with your rev goals and help ensure a little more engine life.
     
  5. 94_gs-r

    94_gs-r can you say 260 whp N/A??

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    already have a fidanza flywheel and xtd stage 2 clutch and lightend crank pulley just lookin for a little more ya know. what about dove edging? ever heard of it?
     
  6. MikeBergy

    MikeBergy Blah blah blah....

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    if you want a reliable engine, don't touch the crank.
     
  7. MikeBergy

    MikeBergy Blah blah blah....

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  8. Exodus

    Exodus Junior Member

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    Your lightened pulley will ruin the engine. For the fact that it's already installed, I'd like to say get new bearings before your "done" with your motor, just so it doesn't go together and THEN pop.
     
  9. GSRCRXsi

    GSRCRXsi Super Moderator Moderator VIP

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    ive seen no consistent evidence that lightened pulleys kill bearings. its always just regurgitated info. lots of people run the CTR N1 pulley with no problems. i think people kill their bearings from some other reason and chalk it up to the pulley being the culprit without further investigation.
     
  10. 94_gs-r

    94_gs-r can you say 260 whp N/A??

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    they kill the barrings from over torqing
    i have a BOMZ racing underdrive pulley that is fulley balanced and a set of STR pulleys. they spin up alot quicker, alot of times it will cause some vibration from the pulley not being balanced but i had it done in a shop cus i didnt wanna f it up
     
  11. 94_gs-r

    94_gs-r can you say 260 whp N/A??

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    yea but d series is a bunch of SOHC crap
     
  12. GSRCRXsi

    GSRCRXsi Super Moderator Moderator VIP

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    you are an idiot.

    blanco, link?
     
  13. MikeBergy

    MikeBergy Blah blah blah....

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  14. GSRCRXsi

    GSRCRXsi Super Moderator Moderator VIP

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    werd, good read, heres the full article with neat pics.
    Welcome to ATI Performance Products.com
    and another good one
    Laskey Racing Online Store

    also, notice i said LIGHTENING the pulley wont have any ill effects. if you still retained the harmonic balancing aspects, i see no problem with it, although it wont really do you any good either. gs-r, read the second link
    so much for "feeling" it rev faster on your imaginary enigne...

    now on the other hand, i DO remember reading a post over on h-t where a guy tested out the CTR N1 pulley on his car, tore it down after 10-15k miles and posted pics of the bearings showing normal wear and no damage. i cant seem to find it now however. and the experiences by people on there seem to be hit or miss, some people say it killed their motors quick, some claim to have run them for years with zero issues. all i know is that i really like the ATI unit :)
     
  15. 94_gs-r

    94_gs-r can you say 260 whp N/A??

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    i was messin around about the d series comment. lighten up lol
     
  16. 94_gs-r

    94_gs-r can you say 260 whp N/A??

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    damn, the guy who wrote that really narrowed it down
    but if the underdrive pulley is so bad for the engine... what about the lightened flywheel?
    if i were to put the stock pulley back on and leave my flywheel would it be fine?
     
  17. 94_gs-r

    94_gs-r can you say 260 whp N/A??

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    micropolishing is good correct every other idea for the crank i have asked about has been shot down so is that good
     
  18. 94_gs-r

    94_gs-r can you say 260 whp N/A??

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    if it needs it...meaning lots of miles on it?
     
  19. MikeBergy

    MikeBergy Blah blah blah....

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    It isn't the weight that absorbs the vibrations. The vibrations (both longitudinal and rotational) caused by the power strrokes are absorbed by the rubber damping material. The damper is mostly for the longitudinal vibes. These vibes are only truly dangerous at the cranks modal frequencies. I remember reading a while ago about what the modes of vibration were for honda cranks, but I don't remember where. Probably on m24x. Anyway, the possibility of premature wear increases dramatically with the amount of power being generated and the amount of time spent at those modal frequencies (specific RPMs). I'm sure that many of those people that had near stock performance motors that used the N1 and UR pulleys didn't see much if any abnormal wear. It's when you start making big power that it starts doing the damage. Note that the last statements are just my speculation. I haven't done the testing necessary to prove that.
     
  20. Exodus

    Exodus Junior Member

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    It's the pulley's job to dampen, not the flywheel. The weight of the flywheel does not affect dampening or wear of the bearings unless something is wrong with the setup.

    Most lightweight flywheels are balanced, so they do not ADD any negative vibrations or do anything improper to create excess bearing wear, it just helps ensure neutrality on one end of the crank. The factory pulley is balanced, or at least more well balanced than most aftermarket items. The lure of aftermarket items is in the idea of increased power. But, you must ask yourself something. Don't you think the engineers at Honda who CAME UP with each engine knew a few more things about it's power capabilities and health\reliability when they made them? Aftermarket companies are rarely ever backed by any actual mechanical engineering or otherwise valid experience to add credential to their claims of their products making power. They build items based on engineering concepts, whereas OE components where designed specifically for their application with great detail and prior thought. The people at AEM, DC, Apexi, UR or any other company GENERALLY are not more intelligent than the people who designed the engines in the first place that these people make products for. They simply do not know as much as the people who set these engines up specifically one way for a reason. This is why many aftermarket parts either provide only marginal performance gains, or offer an increased likelihood of lost performance in another aspect, or lesser efficiency in engine function leading to premature wear or failure.

    your local machine shop knows more than you about your engine and what to do with it. They'll know what it really needs better and see more when they take it apart than you will. Just ask them about what they think for your goals, break the various prices down for you, give them your budget, and let them make the decisions. If I brought my car to you because I was ignorant about it and you weren't, and knew it needed help, but I told you to crap in the combustion chambers because that's what I thought it needed, you'd roll your eyes because you know it's not what's necessary to do the job (since you do it all the time and know better than I do, hence, you are the professional here not me), but you would do what you were paid to, and then have to defend yourself when I come back angry cause it doesn't run right. stupid customer requests cause a lot of problems, sometimes it really is best to leave it to a pro. Machining's not something you just figure out, it takes training.
     
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