Lace My Shoes on Valve Trains

[CAFROG]

So I have a B16A and I have decided my next project will be cams. I want some more bounce to the ounce. Sadly, as most of us know, you usually can't just get cams (unless you do stage one or stay below 8K rev'ing). You need the adjustable cam gears, springs/retainers, chipped ECU and a dyno tune to go along with the cams. That seems to be the minimum....I think I am going for stage 2 Skunk-a-dunks. They were the first decent cam for the B series VTEC's and they results are solid. I heard they are nice N/A set up in a B16. Thats $600+. So where can I save some cash? I mean that in terms of the springs/retainers and cam gears. I have read that cheap cam gears will come loose and get out of adjustment. Hoping to hear some good info from experienced Honda Tuners. I can look all day on Ebay and talk to shops that want to sell me what they carry....so I figured my best non-biased opinions would come from here. I have heard that steal springs are just fine and titanum is overkill. Opinions? I would rather stay away from used cams and springs/retainers. Can I get away with used Cam Gears? I also justt heard that a P06 isn't a good option for a ECU to be socketed and changed over to DOHC VTEC map....like they run into problems down the road? So my ECU options seems to be P28? I have the JDM P30 but was also told that its better to socket a USDM ECU. I have a P30 USDM but its worth quite a bit un-mod'ed in CA.

Let me know what you guys think. I have never ran a performance cam set up.

 

[eg6sir]

i had CTR cams in my b16 and i loved them.. i didnt rev to the moon either.. .. you can use the jdm p30 or a p28.. leave the usdm p30 alone because it will put money in your pocket one day.. lol. .guaranteed.

 

[CAFROG]

I was told (by Tom at Revspeed) that the JDM ECU's aren't good for chips and tunes. I figure I should listen to what he thinks is a good tuning ECU b/c I plan on taking it to him when I tune it. He said P28 too. CTR cams seem to be a good pick but I need the valve train too...right? Or not rev to the moon lol. I think I can get close to 170-175whp with stage 2 and dont think I can make it even close with the CTR's. I want low 14's or high 13's on street tires N/A. I haven't ran my set up but I'm thinking about 14.5's now. I plan on going to Sac Raceway when they open up for the season to get a base line (pretty sure they're closed for winter)

 

[CAFROG]

I think I want supertech steel valve springs and Skunk2 stage 2 cams.

 

[double0Si]

bounce to the ounce.... Skunk-a-dunks...

WTF have you been smokin?

 

[FLounder]

i would think that used cam gears will be fine... i bought my buddy club gears used and they are nice. i see used skunk2 gears for sale a lot, they are nice too. just stay away from the cheapos that only have like 3 bolts for adjusting, those are the ones that slip.

with the stock bottom end the compression might not be high enough to make max power with a stage 2 cam. maybe a ctr or stage 1 type cam would be better for you. cheaper too.

 

[CAFROG]

Well....I called a shop that tunes and sells Skunk products and he told me I am not going to pass the smog sniffer with stage 2. So it looks like I'm back to my original plan and source some type r cams and some adjustable cam gears.

I think I can hit high 13's on street tires with the type r cams, supertech (or comparable) springs and B16B pistons. With a chipped ECU and tune of course.

But when its all said and done....it may be better to source out a GSR short block and re-build it with B18C5 pistons. I bet you I would be close to my goal with just that added to my B16A top end. Compression will go up....so will torque (a lot).

But I think EG6SIR is right and I'm back to where I friggin' started.....type r cams. But I wont look for the type r springs too....I'll just get aftermarket springs/retainers....I want those to be new. So I can get 8-10whp with just those. And I can run the USDM P30 ECu for now too. Once I want to get crazy and rev higher....I'll go from there. But I'll be keeping my eye out on a B18C1 block too. The I'll be playing with bald men in their vettes lmao

 

[Magana559]

Its really hard to keep it smog legal and make good power.

I would say get a GSR block and fill it with LS crank and rods, then use jdm ITR pistons and CTR cams if you want the best power for your money.

The B16 is really hard to work with N/A. It can make more power but it needs to rev a lot higher to make that power. Also it has next to no torque.

I would say get ctr cams, aftermarket springs of your choice, and flat faced valves. You can get more power out of stock cams by adjusting them with cam gears like you would with aftermarket cams.

 

[CAFROG]

Yeah....my heart broke a little....effing smog lol. I am just gonna source out some used CTR cams. Then I'll get the sprockets/springs/retainers.

From what I know about cranks and blocks....its always best to use the crank that came with the block (for balancing reasons). Not to say you can't run a LS crank on a GSR block but it seems like I would feel better when I am rev'ing to the "moon" Shitty part is I could have spent the extra $600-800 for the GSR swap when I put the B16A in. I didn't put torque specs into context at the time. I was a little pissed off when I put the B16A in and felt the power band (in comparison to the LS swap it replaced). The only cool part is a GSR block on my B16A head will be a little higher compression then a GSR long block.

Looks like I'll just keep my eyes open for options. The shop I called (Midnight Performance) says they build motors in-house and can get me a GSR block to my liking. They only use Honda OEM bearings (my preference). With some ITR pistons in that block and my head (with CTR cams) will still pass smog and get me to the 13 second street tire goal I have while still feeling confident I wont spin a bearing like a LS/VTEC could and most likely would do.....in time.

 

[CAFROG]

Can someone tell me if its okay to run a P30 ECU with the CTR cams? I figured I would get an ECU later on down the road if it can wait. I am on a treasure hunt for CTR's now. Then I'll buy springs/retainer/sprockets.
Figure its fine to run the P30 and a chipped one is a good idea if you can make power past 8K but I hear different opinions on the peak N/A power of a B16A bottom end.
Opinions?

 

[FLounder]

in order to get the power out of the mods you are planning on doing you will have to get a chipped and socketed ecu so it can be dyno tuned. but a p30 should make it run, just not to its potential.

 

[Magana559]

Yeah....my heart broke a little....effing smog lol. I am just gonna source out some used CTR cams. Then I'll get the sprockets/springs/retainers.

From what I know about cranks and blocks....its always best to use the crank that came with the block (for balancing reasons). Not to say you can't run a LS crank on a GSR block but it seems like I would feel better when I am rev'ing to the "moon" Shitty part is I could have spent the extra $600-800 for the GSR swap when I put the B16A in. I didn't put torque specs into context at the time. I was a little pissed off when I put the B16A in and felt the power band (in comparison to the LS swap it replaced). The only cool part is a GSR block on my B16A head will be a little higher compression then a GSR long block.

Looks like I'll just keep my eyes open for options. The shop I called (Midnight Performance) says they build motors in-house and can get me a GSR block to my liking. They only use Honda OEM bearings (my preference). With some ITR pistons in that block and my head (with CTR cams) will still pass smog and get me to the 13 second street tire goal I have while still feeling confident I wont spin a bearing like a LS/VTEC could and most likely would do.....in time.

when you get the LS crank you want to get it ballanced, Then you line hone the block and rods. LS-v's dont spin rod bearings because they just do, They spin rod beasrings because who ever builds em dosent do it right. I know a buddy of mine that has a B20 vtec that revs to 8k all day for 3 years with no problem. Always use OEM bearings and ARP rod bolts. I would also get the rods reconed to give the bearings a nice crosshatching to seat into.

A LS or B20 vtec is only as reliable as the builder.

 

[eg6sir]

Can someone tell me if its okay to run a P30 ECU with the CTR cams? I figured I would get an ECU later on down the road if it can wait. I am on a treasure hunt for CTR's now. Then I'll buy springs/retainer/sprockets.
Figure its fine to run the P30 and a chipped one is a good idea if you can make power past 8K but I hear different opinions on the peak N/A power of a B16A bottom end.
Opinions?

yes.. you can run ctr cams w/ a p30.. its what i passed BAR with .. doesnt run to its peak performance, but thats what a chipped ecu is for after you pass smog.. replace when necessary

 

[CAFROG]

Got the first part of the future upgrade. I bought some Silver Skunk2 Cam Gears for $150(OTD). Still need some CTR cams adn some springs/retainers and we're in business! Well halfway until I get an ECU and a tune

eg6sir: Did you have to adjust the valve lash when you replaced the cams?