LS turbo vs. LS vtec turbo : pros and cons

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CRXSI91

Senior Member
a good friend of mine (that has done way too many swaps...hes had 5 ef's 2 of them with ls turbo and ls vtec turbo,one with h22,and the other two with b16 and gsr) told me not to do ls vtec turbo..but to just PnP the head,do a valve job,and a whole valvetrain upgrade (springs,retainers,Cams,etc.) and boost it...he says ls vtec turbo causes too many problems with tuning on the dyno....now i know,LOTS of people have done ls vtec turbo,and have been fine..and lots of people say the same thing over and over :

"ls head cant flow for shit"
"u cant get an ls head to flow as good as a b16 or gsr head"

i understand that..but what about the people that do get ls heads to flow good..like the guy who made 400 whp on a LS motor..no vtec....i mean i want ls vtec as much as everyone else...but doin more and more research....its like..first i gotta get the head..then i gotta get the "ls vtec" conversion kit (That bullshit oil line or whatever they sell on these performance websites now)...then u gotta get a conversion harness for your ecu....then wiring for vtec...i still to do this day cant figure out if u can use the wiring off the LS motor to run a VTEC head or do you need a Vtec wiring harness...so im saying..if im going turbo ANYWAY...is ls vtec turbo REALLY necessary?? i want everyone's opinion.
 
Originally posted by david_jones001@Feb 24 2005, 09:09 PM
ls head is worth a handful of shit, i whouldnt even try to make it flow good, id go with ls vtec turbo anyday, just my 2 cents
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hey,i left u a pm,i need your help...reply to it if u can.
 
i'd just go ls turbo. clean it up real nice and it should flow fine.
 
yea man ive heard the same from a friend of mine that does dyno tuning on everthing under the sun. A ported Ls head will indead flow the same as a vtec head but with all the money you spend trying to make the head flow its better to go with a full gsr or Si and upgrade that.

Ls vtec motors do have a lot of problems but its all about tuning. dont upgrade too fast and tooo big. know your limits and take it a step at a time and keep that thing tued with each upgrade. ;)
 
LS heads are shit and will not flow better than vtec heads..period.

It is worth it to go the LS/VTEC route. The extra parts needed to do the swap are minimal. I believe you must get the wiring harness and ecu of the VTEC head you get.....or just get a chipped P28 like everyone else. If your car is not wired for VTEC, then run a wire, and one for the knock sensor.....not rocket science. You said you'll be going turbo so keep compression low.

And my best piece of advice.......If the person tuning your car is having "real problems" with an LS/VTEC turbo setup.....go somewhere else. It's not like that engine setup is brand new.
 
tuning a boosted vtec motor is not a big deal. if your buddy has a hard time with it, he sucks as a tuner. If your buddy goes to someone else to tune, his buddy sucks as a tuner.

IMO, use the 1000 bucks you'd spend on getting a vtec head, valve train, ecu, and so forth, and sleeve the block and put fordged internals in it instead.

a SOLID bottom end is the most important part of a buildup. a head is easy to change out- a block, you basically have to do a swap again.

do the block
get some good fuel management on there
get a real turbo on there like a gt30/40R :)
tune it
make 450whp on your stock LS head
tell your buddy to fuck off :p
 
You will probably see a good 50whp gain going with a LS/Vtec turbo over a straight LS turbo, so I don't see any reason not to go with the vtec head. Build it properly and you will be fine. It shouldn't be any "harder" to tune, but you will have to tune the hi and lo cam maps, unlike a non-vtec motor, which only has one map to tune. You will be able to rev higher with the vtec head, which will also make it a lot more fun to drive. As everybody else has said the vtec heads are good right out of the factory, it's going to take a lot of money and work to get an LS head close to as good as a stock vtec head.
 
iight,thanks for all the replies...ive decided to do Ls vtec turbo...slap a GSR head up there..but it wont be for a while..cus before the head will even SEE the engine bay..its gonna get Skunk 2 stage 2 cams,valve springs,retainers,Probably a 3 angle valve job,and a PnP..im making sure that head will flow its ass off.
 
Originally posted by pissedoffsol@Feb 25 2005, 03:58 PM

tell your buddy to fuck off :p
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i dont think im gonna do that..he has a 6 foot trophy in his room from one of those EF's he built..cus he ran 10 or 11 seconds with it,and won "fastest crx on the east coast" at Dinwiddie racing track in VA...but thanks for the advice on building up the ls motor.
 
Originally posted by CRXSI91+Feb 27 2005, 09:16 AM-->
CRXSI91 @ Feb 27 2005 said:
pissedoffsol
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CRXSI91 @ Feb 27 2005 said:
@Feb 25 2005, 03:58 PM

tell your buddy to fuck off :p
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i dont think im gonna do that..he has a 6 foot trophy in his room from one of those EF's he built..cus he ran 10 or 11 seconds with it,and won "fastest crx on the east coast" at Dinwiddie racing track in VA...but thanks for the advice on building up the ls motor.
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if this is the case he should not be telling you that ls/vtec turbo setups cause tuning problems. A little harder to tune? yes. But nothing "big problem" wise that would indefinately make it not worth it to get the vtec head.
 
Originally posted by CRXSI91@Feb 27 2005, 09:09 AM
iight,thanks for all the replies...ive decided to do Ls vtec turbo...slap a GSR head up there..but it wont be for a while..cus before the head will even SEE the engine bay..its gonna get Skunk 2 stage 2 cams,valve springs,retainers,Probably a 3 angle valve job,and a PnP..im making sure that head will flow its ass off.
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How much horsepower are you going for? Unless your going for BIG numbers I wouldn't do anything to the head. If you are going for big numbers, the only things I would recommend is upgrading are the valve springs, valves, and retainers. With high horsepower engines these are essential. The stock GSR cams will be fine and don't bother doing any porting to the head.
 
Originally posted by beerbongskickass+Feb 28 2005, 03:09 AM-->
beerbongskickass @ Feb 28 2005 said:
CRXSI91
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beerbongskickass @ Feb 28 2005 said:
@Feb 27 2005, 09:09 AM
iight,thanks for all the replies...ive decided to do Ls vtec turbo...slap a GSR head up there..but it wont be for a while..cus before the head will even SEE the engine bay..its gonna get Skunk 2 stage 2 cams,valve springs,retainers,Probably a 3 angle valve job,and a PnP..im making sure that head will flow its ass off.
[post=466755]Quoted post[/post]​
Click to expand...


How much horsepower are you going for? Unless your going for BIG numbers I wouldn't do anything to the head. If you are going for big numbers, the only things I would recommend is upgrading are the valve springs, valves, and retainers. With high horsepower engines these are essential. The stock GSR cams will be fine and don't bother doing any porting to the head.
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i am going for big numbers..if i wasnt..i would keep the stock ls head up there....but im going for the 300 to 400 whp range...yes,i know,horsepower aint everything,but i dont really have a set number for torque...i just know that by the time im done with my rex,i wanna be able to stomp corvettes,or atleast hang with them..thats why i want to build the head...i mean i want to pnp,but then again,i dont,id rather just throw springs,retainers,valves,and cams, in there,and slap it on...
 
I wouldn't really consider 300-400 horsepower big numbers. I was thinking more like 500+ horsepower. There is no need to port the head and the stock GSR cams work great for boost, so save your money. I would just use the stock head. Some forged rods/pistons in your bottom end with a nice turbo kit and you will get 300-400 horsepower easy... and yes you will stomp vettes.
 
Originally posted by beerbongskickass@Feb 28 2005, 06:48 PM
I wouldn't really consider 300-400 horsepower big numbers. I was thinking more like 500+ horsepower. There is no need to port the head and the stock GSR cams work great for boost, so save your money. I would just use the stock head. Some forged rods/pistons in your bottom end with a nice turbo kit and you will get 300-400 horsepower easy... and yes you will stomp vettes.
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i agree. i think this is the first time i all out agreed with beerbongskickass, but anyway the gsr cams will work great for what your doing. plus if you go bigger than gsr cams your going to have to worry about your valve clearance. work the bottom end, sleeves or rods/pistons or both.
 
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