1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Maybe... or maybe not.

Discussion in 'Engine Building' started by EvoTec1, Mar 24, 2007.

  1. EvoTec1

    EvoTec1 Member

    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2007
    Location:
    Tacoma, WA
    Goal: mid/low 14's, hella trap speed, decent mileage in like a 90 or 91 hatch or CRX

    OBD1 B16 (obd1 cuz i do tuning)
    JDM ITR cams (a fiend is replacing the cams in his built LSvtec)
    Used 4-2-1 header (purchased)
    2.5" full exhaust w/ good cat
    LS Tranny
    Tuned with Moates and ChromePRO (When I figure out datalogging hondas)

    I know, I can already hear you guys telling me about how a ys1 or gsr tranny would be better, but if I had cash i'd be going H22 anyway. The 1.6 motor should get me around town ok, get great mileage on the 1200 mile trip to laguna seca, and pull like a raped ape on the highway with those long gears....

    What do you think about cam selection/head prep?
    will 2.5" be adequate for the exhaust?
    Is it ok to regularly spin a stock B16 bottom end to the 8400-8600rpm or so I would assume this cam would allow?

    Like I said, mid 14's and hella top end is all i am looking for in a commuter, so rant on! I'm not dead set on a B16, hell i used to think they were junk.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2007
  2. EvoTec1

    EvoTec1 Member

    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2007
    Location:
    Tacoma, WA
    damn 20 views and no replies.... you guys cliquey or what?
     
  3. EvoTec1

    EvoTec1 Member

    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2007
    Location:
    Tacoma, WA
    No one can tell me about the "right" way to build a stock bottom end B16?

    Does the LS tranny thing really make me look that out of touch?
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2007
  4. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

    Messages:
    28,465
    Likes Received:
    228
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2002
    Location:
    Dallas / Fort Worth, TX
    Here's a tip- if you're going to complain that much, you won't get any replies. Hits over the weekend could easily be non-members reading through threads or even all the bots from search engines that we have crawling the board. Calling people cliquey isn't going to get you any replies either. Chill out.

    Yes, the LS transmission is going to kill you. You won't really pull like a raped ape on the highway because you're not going to have the torque to overcome the gearing on the transmission. Shorter gearing is always better for acceleration no matter what- until you run out of traction, but then that's another issue altogether.

    As for your parts selection, I think what you've chosen will be fine. Tune the car on a dyno and see how far you really need to go in terms of your rev range. You might want to replace the bolts in your rods with ARP pieces to keep the bottom end happy above 8000rpm.

    If you want to know the "right" way to build a stock bottom end B16, there really isn't one. There are so many ways to make power- you just have to pick what kind of response and power curve you want to end up with. Assuming you want to run on the highway, I would go with larger cams than the ITR- but you can still make good power up top with them. Just make sure you tune tune tune!

    2.5" exhaust is fine.

    More on the transmission- if you're willing to put in some sweat time, you could drop an LS 5th gear into a B16 transmission. That would give you your highway cruising economy and your 1-4 gear acceleration. Just make sure you have the confidence to do it- there are a lot of parts in the transmission, and putting one together can be quite intimidating!
     
  5. EvoTec1

    EvoTec1 Member

    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2007
    Location:
    Tacoma, WA
    Well thank you for posting, just for the record though, i used to post here hella, but i'll be damned if i could remember the login or even what 5 year old hotmail account i used, but anyway...

    Sorry for getting annoyed at the lack of response, this post may have been hinered by the title, i shouldnt have started trying to piss ppl off, i figured it'd get a response...again, i'm sorry

    on to engines, and this gear calculator thing

    If i used a big 17 inch wheel, in first gear i would be a full 10 mph faster than with a YS1, and at the top of second i'd be hitting 80, which is what the shorter tranny would hit at the top of third. I could just see someone being like holy sht how many revs is this dude turning?!? He JUST hit third gear!

    Wouldnt i hella pull on him after he went up a gear until i had to shift?

    As for torque, above 5500 or so torque decreases and its all revs and hp right? Am i wrong thinking the top of first and second would pull ridiculous quick?

    Would ITR cams provide enough breath for the 1.6 liter motor to make effective use of a 8400-8600 redline?

    Will stock pistons hold up to this abuse for long? Freshening the bottom end with quality hardware seems logical... a friend of mine (i'm not sure about his automotive expertise) said that b16's blow up hella, especially when you fck with the head. Ive heard that b16's are solid, but none of my honda friends have ever gone with one before.

    swapping gears sounds cool, but wouldnt the motor drop hella out of its powerband having the reallow 4th and then hitting the ultra long LS 5th? ....wait, it wouldnt pull in 5th in any case

    as for the lack of torque, i think with such a high redline a small no2 shot would make for a nice crutch in the midrange (i'm a laughing gas fan)

    And let me revise my performance goals. I realize that maybe a 15 flat would be more realistic for this combination on motor. If i could spray a 50 hp shot or so and run with GSR swapped civics, but with better mileage that'd be awesome.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2007
  6. EvoTec1

    EvoTec1 Member

    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2007
    Location:
    Tacoma, WA
    maybe if i raise teh post count ppl will look.... BACK TO THE TOP!!!!
     
  7. get_nick

    get_nick These snozzberries taste like snozzberries... VIP

    Messages:
    11,937
    Likes Received:
    1,056
    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2003
    Location:
    Washington State
    hey, you're from tacoma.

    what shop do you go to?

    and as for you post on the weekend, a lot of people don't have an answer either, so they choose not to post. also, use a better thread heading. people wont look at it unless it gets attention. try something like, "b16 goals. help please". and you will get a better reply.

    but to reach your goal, focus on the freeway, or 1/4 mile. it's really hard to have both.

    you don't need to rebuild your block unless something is wrong with it. another member on here, "b16" has a del sol and has great numbers with it. consider a good header, the cams, lsd, good tires, and you will reach your high 14's.
     
  8. EvoTec1

    EvoTec1 Member

    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2007
    Location:
    Tacoma, WA
    thanks guys, the car will be built for high speed cruising, ans I have to drive between tacoma and spokane often, and i head to laguna seca every chance i get.

    What I want is something that i can cruise at like 100mph + over long distances, while remaining fun enough to drive hard on the weekend. I would say primarily it will be built for the highway, but i raced my 72 ford pickup at the strip, so the car will see some strip use.

    but heres the answers i'm still looking for

    Cams: Will ITR cams breathe to 8000+ in a b16, i want a rev limit around 8600, get nick seems to think a stock motor with a freshened bottom end will work, anyone disagree?

    An acquaintance of mine recently argued that the longer gearing with a b16 will end up with worse economy because the amount of throttle input needed to increase power when passing someone or going up a hill would be increased, when compared to a shorter tranny.

    I dont really want a gsr motor, but does anyone have gsr hooked up to a LS tranny? How well does that work? I'll search
     
  9. EvoTec1

    EvoTec1 Member

    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2007
    Location:
    Tacoma, WA
    Well it'd depend on where the cams made power. I want to have enough room to let it nose over a little before I shift. Where WOULD itr cams make power in a b16? That may be too much cam, i dont know the specs.

    I dont want to be turning like 9k, cuz I don't want to have to build the motor. (I'd have to rebuild it in like 20K miles if I didn't, right?)

    as for gearing, i DO want long gears... kind of an oxymoron for performance i know. The buddy giving me the cams has a LSVTEC/YS1 combo thats wicked fast, but the ls 4th gear is almost as long as his 5th was. I'm looking for good response and economy at 110 mph.

    I would like to be able to pull to redline in 4th, and then just drop it into 5th and cruise near the torque peak. like at a buck 15 or so.

    Between here and spokane there is about 200 miles or so of nothing, with places for cops to hide only about every 50 miles. Cruising at 110 or so makes a 6 hour trip take about 3 and a half.

    And down the central valley into sac town, i could probably kill hella time, and make great economy, as its slightly downhill.
     
  10. eg6sir

    eg6sir Supa Mod Moderator VIP

    Messages:
    21,703
    Likes Received:
    321
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2005
    Location:
    661 BK CA
    no need to drive that fast..
     
  11. EvoTec1

    EvoTec1 Member

    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2007
    Location:
    Tacoma, WA
    eesh... cali is tough! Between here and spokane everyone does it, you guys talk about the "other" people on the road...but its pretty deserted.

    after riding in a GSR/ ls tranny hatch though, i may be looking to use the gsr tranny, the LS tranny is too long for its own good.

    What DO people use them for? big boosted mills?
     
  12. EvoTec1

    EvoTec1 Member

    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2007
    Location:
    Tacoma, WA
    I hear the cali cops will crush your car if you get caught in a street racing area... And people still do it? I sure as hell wouldn't.
     
Verification:
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page