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My poor noob addled mind...

Discussion in 'Engine Building' started by drbelanger73, Dec 30, 2007.

  1. drbelanger73

    drbelanger73 Beer is good for you.

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    Help me out on this one:

    I am a comm/radar tech by trade. In my buisness i can open up a WSC(V)3 UHF Tranceiver that is geared up for sat-comm, swap out a few modules, and bam i now have a line of site WSC. I have this same idea when it comes to the JDM B18C and the USDM B18C1.

    From what i read they are the same damn engine, with different internals. That is how the JDM engine gets its hp over the USDM (?)

    Moving along i understand a bore to be an increase in size and honing to be polishing and resurfacing.

    What i would like to do is replace the B18C1 pistons with the B18C pistons in order to increase compression. I had also intended to have some work done on the head to seat the JDM valves, replace the cams with JDM spec, and also replace the springs. I´m not sure about throttle body and headers yet i haven´t gotten that deep into it. Now in my mind, like with a WSC, that would then create an engine near to or better than the B18C.

    Reading what i just read in my little handbook here that would tell me that this is not possible. If the cylinder honing enlarges the cylinder then i will not be able to use the JDM replacements OR is this what oversize rings are for? Also, being that i am using OEM honda parts, granted JDM, would i have to balance the crank again?

    The whole time i´ve been prepping for this project i have heard people rave about the interchangability of Honda engines. Can i transform my engine in the manner i had intended or did i miss something along the way? Pinouts and electronics, good to go got that part, little less certain on the machinery...

    I´m sure this basic to a lot of you so please try and remember some of use are here to learn. That aside, i have a thick skin so flame away. I am a card carrying noob after all. If you ever want to know anything about Comm or Radar theory though i´m all ears :D

    Poor noob brain hurt...
    Noob sad...

    Pls help noob...
     
  2. 801CRX

    801CRX Got Rice?

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    The blocks are exactly the same, just with different internals as you stated.

    Your plans sound good to me I dont see anything wrong with them.

    When you hone the block it wont increase the bore of the sleeve by much. You can still retain the stock piston ring size...I believe.

    Your crank should be fine.

    I hope this helps!!!
     
  3. drbelanger73

    drbelanger73 Beer is good for you.

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    Yes it does help some.

    Problem i just drove down to Boston and had about three hours to think about things I'm not sure if i confused myself more or if i figured something out.

    A Type-R Integra (as opposed to the GS-R with the B18C1) came with the B18C in Japan and the B18C5 in America. Refered to as the DC2. The DC5 comes with the K20A and (?) was available only in Japan.

    SO...

    Why is it then that i read someplace that you would have to machine the head in order to get it to fit the Type-R valves properly? This doesn't seem to make sense unless you would be putting the internals from the K type into the B series; and that just seems wrong from the get go.

    :confused:

    I take it then my definitions of honing and boring were correct then?

    My other remaining question is what then is an oversized piston ring for?
     
  4. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Boring = enlarging cylinder bore size. When you do this, you have to get oversized pistons AND rings to match. Honda sells pistons in OEM oversize by +.25mm and +.50mm. Sometimes +.50mm only. If you're going to increase the bore, just shell out the cash for aftermarket forged pistons.

    Honing = cleaning up and scoring the cylinder walls to take new rings. The honing process does remove material, but not enough to be significant to require larger pistons and rods. When you install and file your rings to fit, you compensate for small variations in bore size, including material removed (if any) during the honing process.

    Ideally, you send the block AND the pistons to a machine shop all at once. The machine shop match bores the block to each individual piston based on a piston to wall clearance that YOU specify. The clearance changes based on the piston material, intended use, and other factors (some like the clearance loose, some like it tight). The block will come back with the pistons labeled for each individual cylinder.

    JDM Honda blocks do not have letters on the end of the block codes. There might be 3-4 variations of B18C engines in JDM-land, but you have to use other indicators to find out exactly what the engines are.

    Swapping pistons- if you go from B18C1 to B18C5 pistons, you're only going to gain a half point or so of compression. It's not worth the trouble unless you have the pistons already and you're planning an engine rebuild. If you have to buy pistons, just get aftermarket forged pistons. They're lighter, you can specify exactly what compression you want, and they won't be used (new OEM cast pistons cost almost as much as new aftermarket pistons).
     
  5. LS_VTEC

    LS_VTEC you get the BRAKE

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    Nippon Racing oem replacement pistons are garbage.
     
  6. drbelanger73

    drbelanger73 Beer is good for you.

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    It seems a machine shop is going to be doing a lot of the work for me. In a way this is good, i am no machinist mate. It makes me wonder what the markup is gonna be. Still it takes some of the adventure out of it.

    I have also come to the conclusion that i need a solid book on the art of engine building, and perhaps an general education on auto mechanics. I understand the conceptual mechanics of the basic workings (suck, squish, bang, blow), sensors, and the computer controls that direct the symphony.

    What i am missing is the art. I can sculpt a 28mm figure out of epoxy but it took be 20 years of trial and error. I am not a trained mechanic. I grew up holding tools for my father and eventually leading some repairs, but in essence i am a back yard mechanic with a healthy dose of yankee stubborness.

    Fuck the yankees btw, how did New York get that name and Boston get the Red Sox? Boston was the only city taken from the British in the war, New York was the British headquarters!!! Can anyone say Evacuation Day? Sorry i digress... breathe...

    From what i have read 11.1:1 is the best compression for 92 octane gas, 11.5:1 depending on what you read. High compression on a NA street motor is a good thing. Detonation is bad. I'm not going to go down the highway at 8500rpm in final gear. I want a low band, goes vroom, makes me happy motor.

    I have a lot to learn. The idea of taking a file to a piston ring makes me ill...

    Still, i got in this to learn. The first time i stood in front of a radar as a "trained" technician i thought to myself "I can't believe they are gonna let me work on this thing..."

    Now i stand befor my acura...

    :axe:

    Victory or Death!!!

    and a lot more reading, and research, and posting...

    I'm just afraid im gonna take the whole thing apart out of curiosity and be standnig there in a moutain or parts not knowing what the hell to do. Come to think of it that would be fun.

    Breathe...
     
  7. drbelanger73

    drbelanger73 Beer is good for you.

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    The FSM is painfully detailed with diagrams and specs and such. The whole engine building process is laid out much like any other sort of tech manual. Its the details that worry me. Something that might be left out that a mechanic would know from the trade that i don't.

    I'm mostly worried that im overconfident. It does look a lot like a big model from the diagrams...

    I'll go look into a Chiltons manual or something.
     
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  8. drbelanger73

    drbelanger73 Beer is good for you.

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    What worries me is what a machine shop is gonna charge. Shipping an engine block off is a trememdous amount of hassle. I do know of one place near me that might be able to do the work, specializes in hondas. Spoke to the kid once when i looked at a Civic body he had laying in the back. Seemed competant. I imagine i could load it up in the back of the Scion and drive it over there once i clean it up.

    Time to do something with it, i'm tired of just looking at it. Tools are gonna up the budget as well. Time to come up a specific goal and a parts list. Next post, the plan...

    Gonna need a lot of duct tape...
     
  9. drbelanger73

    drbelanger73 Beer is good for you.

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    What worries me is what a machine shop is gonna charge. Shipping an engine block off is a trememdous amount of hassle. I do know of one place near me that might be able to do the work, specializes in hondas. Spoke to the kid once when i looked at a Civic body he had laying in the back. Seemed competant. I imagine i could load it up in the back of the Scion and drive it over there once i clean it up.

    Time to do something with it, i'm tired of just looking at it. Tools are gonna up the budget as well. Time to come up a specific goal and a parts list. Next post, the plan...

    Gonna need a lot of duct tape...
     
  10. drbelanger73

    drbelanger73 Beer is good for you.

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    why that posted twice i do not know...
     
  11. drbelanger73

    drbelanger73 Beer is good for you.

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    Hehe funny you mention that i had this image in my mind of everything laying around with pieces of tape on them saying what they are and what they where connected to. Hence the duct tape comment...

    I was considering photographing each stage as i followed along in the tech manual, sorry FSM. When i was done i could make a post out of it all. I should try and give something back to the site instead of just asking questions...
     
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