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Need advice for noob driving technique

Discussion in 'Racing and Driving Techniques' started by confusatron, Sep 4, 2005.

  1. confusatron

    confusatron Senior Member

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    Just swapped my civic (B16A SiR II), love the way it drives now, but converted from auto to manual. I'm not really used to driving stick, I can do it, but I'm not real knowledgeable when it comes to what technique to use in what situation. I'm looking for answers to a few questions:

    1. Does doing burnout shifts into first gear hurt any part of the drivetrain. This is probably a stupid question, but I have to ask it because I'm doing violent burnouts like every other launch.

    2. Does it hurt anything to shift into 1st, let it climb to 6,000 or so rpm and then shift into third. I've noticed that the only way I can shift cleanly into 2nd gear is if I shift out of first almost immediately after launch. Shifting into third at a high rpm from 1st seems to solve this problem. I've also tried launching in 2nd, which also works pretty well, even though you start out for a second or two a little slow, you climb the rpm band fairly quickly after that. I think it might also save time and some wear on my drivetrain in the long run. My throttle seems over eager to light shit up.

    3. It seems to me that shifting from a high rpm works great in 3rd and 4th as far as landing into the next gear at the beginning of the VTEC powerband.

    4. I've done quite a few launches in the past 24 hours where I squeal the tires into 1st, 2nd, AND 3rd. Is this bad? Am I gonna torch this clutch and trans in record time, or is this okay to do on a regular basis?

    Again, all noob questions, and I'm asking because I really would like to know from those in the know.
     
  2. civicious

    civicious FüK-VTEC VIP

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    Off yourself.




    Now.
     
  3. CiViC_SOHC

    CiViC_SOHC Senior Member

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    he's putting it nicely :lol: burnouts hurt your clutch thats ALMOST it...umm the shifting from 1st to 3rd why? 2nd gear helps in racing man...all gears do...ask some of ur friends...
     
  4. confusatron

    confusatron Senior Member

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    Thing is though, if I rev full in first, it jerks hard like an epileptic over and over into 2nd. In order to get it to transition without jerking, I have to shift really early, like 4000 rpm. When I launch in 2nd or shift from 1st to 3rd, it seems okay, I was just wondering if doing that would cause any damage. I've heard of pros doin this so I dont think its bad. (launching in 2nd I mean.) It seems like a waste to even use 1st except for burnouts.
     
  5. Citizen_Insane

    Citizen_Insane Senior Member

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    If you're doing burnouts in 1st, you're starting at WAY to high an initial RPM before dropping the clutch.
     
  6. drpenguin

    drpenguin Senior Member

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    okay man i dont know where to start. A. Burn outs are bad. Yes your hurting your drivetrain when you do it. Im not going to go into detail too much. You need to learn to "launch" at 800rpm. A good way to learn how to launch and the way i taught my woman. get in your car and get all ready. With the car running. Engage your e-brake. Push the clutch in. Put the car in first gear. Let off the clutch little by little. listen to your engine. I cant stress this enough. if your gonna put money into your motor you need to listen to it. any ways eventually you will find the "sweet spot"in your clutch. this is the point where it grabs the flywheel. your car will start to pull forword, you back end will sink down, and your motor will sound like its gonna die. This is the point you wanna give it gas. dont floor it just enough to bring it to 1000rpm. you should practice this for your "launches" if you ever wanna drag and "launch" like a king your gonna have to get this down like clock work. Now VTEC......VTEC is great. love mine and would never give it up. now Im not sure how much you know about it. dont care. you shouldnt drive just to hit vtec buddy. honestly unless im racing or trying to get around someone (maybe to fuck with some people on the street) otherwise i shift at 4900rpm. Now with your gear shifting. im sure your still looking at the stick to figure out where the gears are. again this is something you need to get down. when your driving your eyes should be on the road and your gauges. not looking at your woman, not looking at your deck, and deffinatly not looking at your stick for the gears. yeah and im really high so here is where i stop. have fun and if you can find someone who is good with a stick and watch them drive. watch there feet espically so you dont burn out. oh yeah and your last post. when you take it to 8000rpm in first and shift to second. it sounds like your hitting the gas befor you let off the clutch. You should hold the clutch in with the gas out. shift into second. thats straight back. let out of the clutch then hit the gas at the sweet spot. it should jerk hard and still keep going. Mine jerks like a mofo and barks the tires off! it you do it right you wont grind and you wont jerk.ha jerk. yeah anyways its sleep time
     
  7. wanderinman

    wanderinman Senior Member

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    If its not a nice clean jerk (i.e. if it bucks when your shifting into second) then SLOW DOWN coming off the clutch. Obviously you have little to no experience driving a manual, so dont get into it and start trying to be speed racer. Give yourself (and your car) a few weeks at LEAST before you start going crazy with it. Try and make every single shift a smooth and flawless ordeal. Like anything else in the world driving is all about timing, there is a cadence to your shift in terms of clutch, shift, clutch. The proportions of time each take in a nice SLOW SMOOTH shift are going to be the same for your face shift, you just speed the whole process up. Think of a shift like a golf swing, unless your swing is a nice smooth tempo the ENTIRE time, your going to loose a lot of golf balls.

    Also, learn to drive it smooth for the honies, especially new ones. The way you drive your car says a lot for the way you do a lot of things. If your fumbling around rushing everything in the car, what should they expect in the bedroom. :lol:

    To summarize: It might be exciting to plant it and powershift everywhere. But stop, if you have to ask these questions your obviously not experienced enough to know when your fucking up your car and when your not. Slow down, take things easy, and learn your car before you have to fix something expensive.
     
  8. CiViC_SOHC

    CiViC_SOHC Senior Member

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    B-series trannys can get expensive :D thats why I don't own one haha...just take your time learn the basics then think about racing and stuff...I had a friend that had just bought a EK with LS swap body kit rims lowered...the whole thing and he was street racing in his first week...I was in the passenger seat trying to tell him how to race becuase he has bought it like last sat. and it was friday...and we were racing a friend...so he did pretty well for his first time racing...we beat my friends N/A RX-7 3 times :p
     
  9. reikoshea

    reikoshea HS Troll...And Mod Moderator VIP

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    umm yeah...wow is all i can say.

    Burnouts will kill your clutch really quickly.

    Shifting from 1st to 3rd wont hurt anything except for your times at the strip. I do 2nd to 4th all the time daily driving and i have never replaced a clutch on either car (Protege or Prelude).

    You wont believe this, but if you let out of the clutch really fast on a FWD car, IT IS SUPPOSED TO SHOOT TO ONE SIDE. Did you ever see fast and the furious? Remember the green eclipse trying to race, he was all over the place. I think that representation of torque steer was a little bit harsh, but that is what happends. It takes a while to get over torque steer in a high power (higher power) engine. The only things that might help you are a new differential and practice time in a high school parking lot or something.

    Drpenguin's method of training is how ive taught all of my girl friend's how to drive. Most of them (except the current girl...she's friggin hopeless) can drive as well as i can...at least in a straight line. It might seem redundant and pointless, but learning how to launch and smooth shift for speed will get you the high numbers at the track.

    Learning exactly how to release the clutch at high speed will stop the tire spin...you are letting it out too rapidly and all the torque that the clutch was taking off the transaxle goes STRAIGHT BACK TO IT, and causes the wheel to spin. If you learn how to ease off of it and keep your revs high, thats where the speed is.

    I dont know if talking about it helps, but if you ever down in Dallas shoot me a PM, i generally have nothing to do after 9PM
     
  10. civicious

    civicious FüK-VTEC VIP

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    It'll only pull to one side when you dump the clutch, if you don't have LSD.
     
  11. drpenguin

    drpenguin Senior Member

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    Haha yeah it will. those curbs are deadly with no LSD
     
  12. confusatron

    confusatron Senior Member

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    Thanks people.

    I was driving all day Saturday and Sunday to get used to it, and I've gotten a hell of a lot better. The best practice was in traffic, and the only thing I'm still having to get used to is stopping on an uphill slope and then shifting into 1st. Especially when the dickhead in the Durango behind me is riding my goddamn bumper at the stoplight. So I killed it that time and had to stop and restart the car.

    Other than that my shifts are a lot smoother into 1st and 2nd now, and I'm not jerking into the gears or doing horrific burnouts all over the place. I've found that it's more about how smoothly you let out the clutch than where you put your rpms with the gas pedal. I can give it too much gas as long as I let the clutch out properly to launch at 2000 rpms smoothly. I still light it up occasionally cuz I can't resist it for too long, shit why even swap if you're not gonna enjoy the damn thing once in a while.

    So shifting from first to third, and launching in 2nd is pretty pointless now that I have a lot better feel for things, so just ignore that first part.

    Incidentally I seem to be getting a lot better gas mileage with the bigger motor and the manual trans. I cruise a lot in neutral, especially if I'm like a block away from a red light or stop sign and there isn't a lot of traffic behind me. I've also been rolling in neutral down entire blocks on the side streets. Saves some gas there.

    I'm also learning that downshifting during turns is not always necessary depending on how fast I'm going and what gear I approached the turn in. I'm too used to NFSU2 having to downshift to go from 150mph to 90mph to make a turn without hitting a wall. :D Oh and did I mention that my speedo isn't working due to a dead VSS? So I have no idea how fast I'm going till I get that sensor in, I just try to flow with the traffic mostly and watch out for cops. When that's working I'll have a better idea of what my good speed ranges are for each gear.
     
  13. wanderinman

    wanderinman Senior Member

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    B-Series motors dont fire their fuel injectors above 1050rpms if your throttle is closed, so if your coasting do it in a high gear, then you dont burn any gas
     
  14. drpenguin

    drpenguin Senior Member

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    :werd: keep it up yo! you will be "racing" in no time.
     
  15. lude9593

    lude9593 Senior Member

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    some other tips for launching when you're racing is learning to "feather" the throttle and clutch. another term is slipping the clutch. usually at the track in my prelude i'll hold it between 3k and 3.5k rpm's. then let the clutch out in a slightly controlled manner though not dumping it. if you spin too much, ease off the throttle a little and then get back in it. it's basically a give and take until you can hook up the rest of 1st and from then on, slam em hard. keep practicing. just don't kill anyone.
     
  16. Jawbone

    Jawbone Junior Member

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    launching is hard on your clutch because its such a high gear from a stand still.
     
  17. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Really?!
     
  18. confusatron

    confusatron Senior Member

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  19. confusatron

    confusatron Senior Member

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    Well I think I'm pretty much done with this now. Thanks for all the advice. I can now launch consistently at around 4000 rpm with little to no slip, and don't have any problems shifting in other situations. Only thing I can say is heavy traffic is a bitch with stick shift, but that's about it.

    I'm having some weird (i think mechanical) problems with shifting into 3rd sometimes, and once in a great while into 2nd. I get this thing where my clutch is pushed in, but the shifter just won't push into the 3rd gear slot. Once in a while I get this gnashing grinding sound for a split second, like gears mashing together. Invariably I can push it into the slot if I try a 2nd time, but its fucking pissing me off that I miss 3rd sometimes because of this. It only seems to do this when the car is fully warmed up. Don't have this problem until then.
     
  20. GSRCRXsi

    GSRCRXsi Super Moderator Moderator VIP

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    yup
     
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