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Need Advice on turbo setup

Discussion in 'Forced Induction' started by eastkoastkustumz, Jun 30, 2004.

  1. eastkoastkustumz

    eastkoastkustumz Member

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    Ok I need some advice on my situations... I'm building an Ls/Vtec currently and am taking my time and planning everything out very very carefully!! I chose a B18a block from a 93' teg because from my hmwk I believe it is the strongest block that honda made. (even stronger than the c1 or c5) It's cast is different than the others. I'm sending it out to the machine shop to have it honed and sleeved to have the block even stronger for boost. The crankshaft from my B16(I have two B16s to pull the parts I need off of if anyone has any other ideas) As well as to get balanced.Then I'll be putting in eagle one forged rods, and the pistons will depend on the boost setup I go with.

    The head is from a B16, and is Being port and polished. The head has pretty much all skunk2 stage 2 stuff including valves/retainers/springs, camshafts, cams. The intake manifold ,as of right now, will be the stock B16 intake manifold. It appears to be the best compared to all the other available intake manifolds out there when looked at on the dyno. The exhaust setup is all dependant on the turbo setup as well. Currently the only thing I know for sure about my exhaust setup is that I will be using the thermal research cat back. I was originally going to go all motor but have decided that boost is the way to go. I was thinking of just running something very simple because it will be driven almost daily. Something like 7-8 lbs of boost. That should def make some nice gains without killing my motor. I'm also concerned with the longevity of my motor.

    So if you guys have suggestions for my setup, and I mean anything at all. Let me know

    Thanks
    Fred
     
  2. eastkoastkustumz

    eastkoastkustumz Member

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    Oh Yeah,

    I forgot to mention that the fuel system will be an Aem fuel rail and pressure regulator. Not sure on what size injectors yet. And a 250 fuel pump. The ecu is going to be a chipped P28. Thinking of going with the spoon program or if I have to, I would use the hondata system. I know I can program that from a laptop with their software.


    Thanks again
    Fred
     
  3. NotUrAverage_Si

    NotUrAverage_Si Senior Member

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    Don't rely on a fuel rail, fuel pressure regulator and fuel pump to keep your motor from detonating. AEM EMS or Hondata will be the key to keep your motor from blowing up. Injector size will really depend on your horsepower goal. What size turbo are you going to use?
     
  4. eastkoastkustumz

    eastkoastkustumz Member

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    I'm not certain aboutany turbo setup. I'm really a rookie at all this. Is it possible to maintain somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 whp and still be a daily driver or will I need a high amount of boost for that. My main goal is to acheive more torque. I originally thought about the greddy kit but looked at the drag kit and the drag kit seems to produce more torque. If anyone has suggestions or experience with this setup please let me know.
     
  5. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    putting a b16 crank in a b18 block is a horrible idea.

    your stroke will be about 5mm too short, and you will have 2:1 compression at best.
    if you go to custom rods, you'll have no torque at all, and won't make power until 11k, but by then, the rest of the motor will have destroyed itself tryign to rev that high.

    the stock b16 manifold is far from the best... id on't know what dynos you're looking at. a stock ITR flows it over abotu 5hp on an otherwise stock b16 motor.

    you're really building this thing the entirely wrong way.
    you're skipming the most important parts, and building parts that won't give you dick for power and don't need to be built in the first place (like the head)

    if you're sleeving, get 8psi out of your head.
    or, don't bother sleeving.

    you don't need or even want a skunk2 program for a boosted car.

    you want hondata
    you want large injectors, and a means to get it there in massive volumes (255 lph pump)
    aem rails are useless.
    fpr are worthless if you have the right sized injectors in the first place.

    you have much to research- don't spend a dime yet, or you'll regret it. do some reading and asking
     
  6. eastkoastkustumz

    eastkoastkustumz Member

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    Awesome thanks for the input !! I'd be better off with the ls crank ? Is it dif than the c1 or c5 crank? Do you recc the type R intake manifold over any aftermarket intake manifolds?

    What head work do you reccomned for me to go with . I can always ditch the skunk 2 parts I have. They should be easy to get rid of and grab diff head internals.

    I thought sleeving would give me the peace of mind that the block would be good for any amount of boost ? What Block work do you reccomend ? I believe forged is the way to go but from the input I'm getting I'm going about this the wrong way. What do you suggest?

    Def gonna go with the Hondata now that I checked it out!!! The injectors will be dependant on the boost , correct? And is there a good fuel rail you can recc? It makes sense that if you have the right injectors you wouldn't need the regulators.

    What turbo suggestions do you have? I hear some spool faster than others and still produces the same psi?

    Thanks Guys
     
  7. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    the ls crank is fine, and will give you more torque/displacement due to its stroke.
    use ls-length rods with it as well
    yes, its different than the c1/c5 crank. it has a longer stroke.

    IM, I recommend the JG/eldebrock Victor X for boosted setups.

    if you already ahve the head internals, they are more than fine to use- but don't expect the grand you spent on them to give you any sort of real power gain. cams are for all motor guys. turbo cars work very well on stock-ish cam profiles.

    if you have the cash, go ahead and sleeve- it can't hurt... but for running 8 psi on a normal t3/t04e turbo, its overkill and then some.
    forged rods and pistons are good. talk to Jeff from IB. he sponsors the engine building forum and just did a test on pistons (in this forum).

    injectors need to be sized for your power level.
    if you plan to run the above setup, some 550's will be plenty big. but if you plan on running more boost late down the road, its a good idea to just get the larger ones now. hondata can control them down.

    fuel rail, i recommend the golden eagle. http://goldeneaglemfg.com
    and even though a FPR regulator is useless for the most part, you still need the pump to supply the rail.
    remember, PRESSURE is nto VOLUME.

    higher pressure CAN give a little more flow, but at some point, it tops out, and it will starve it.
    building a good fuel pump/rail/injector/management setup is KEY to a good running turbo car.

    turbo's really don't produce psi so to speak.... psi is measured at your car's map sensor. a turbo compreses air. and again, pressure (psi) is not volume (cfm). a larger turbo will flow, much like a larger injector, more volume at the same psi. more air = more power = need for more fuel.

    nearly EVERY turbo on the market will be able to boost from 0psi to 15 psi with ease, and larger ones can easily hit 30psi.

    for your setup, I'd go with a precision sc34.
    http://precisionte.com
     
  8. eastkoastkustumz

    eastkoastkustumz Member

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    Thanks for all the good advice your giving I really do appreciate this.

    I was wondering about using a blockguard that I saw at goldeneagles's site. Any thoughts on that? And I was wondering about your opinion on the golden eagle machineless ls/vtec kit.

    A friend also told me to look into micro polishing the crank for almost no friction, and he went on and on about it. I just stopped listening and thought that I should ask someone who knows what they are talking about.
    I checked out the victor x intake manifold, and wow it looks very impressive. Especially when combined with forced induction. Thats def on the list . I can't wait to grab one. I was looking on ebay and they have some for buy it now $290, but it just has the edelbrock logo on it in red and nothing about victorx . So I was wondering if it was a bogus manifold.
    Is there some place to check out what size injectors to use when using a certain amount of boost? If I was to run say......10 lbs of boost . What size injectors would you reccomend and why? I checked out the sc34, and was wondering why you favor this in particual. Does it have a small amount of lag? And how different is it from a turbonetics t3/t4. Just wondering if you have heard anything about this.


    Thanks Again
     
  9. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    block guards suck.

    sleeve it, or leave it.

    their ls/vtec kit is pretty neat. but i have no personal expr with it.

    micropolishing a crank is a god way to blow a lot of money for no good reason. you might see 2 hp out of it.

    the edelbrok mani looks like this:


    [​IMG]

    JG is no longer with them, so the logo might have changed.

    http://www.rceng.com has an injector calculator. it has NOTHING to do with boost. psi, once again, is meaningless. its about VOLUME. above, i recommended 550s to pair with the sc34 at 8 psi. they will support a little more than that if you want more, and you will, in the future.

    lag, i won't even talk about. im sick of hearing the word from people who don't even have turbos on their cars. i have qwuite possibly the largest turbo out of every one on this board, and at 1/4 throttle in 5th gear at 2200 rrpms, i can almost at will hit 4 psi in a second. i picked it because it suits your goals pretty well. the real answer is to look at the compressor maps.
    its different from a turboheadaches t3/t4 in that its not a turboheadaches, its made by a good comapny, still using garret parts, but they have special housings and such on them. they are one of the better turbos on the market right now for the money.
     
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