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Need Advice on which car to buy

Discussion in 'HYBRID -> EG-EK / DC' started by agarboy, Aug 2, 2006.

  1. agarboy

    agarboy Junior Member

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    I am an absolute noob to the tuning scene and I am still learning the basics. After reading quite a bit about cars and how to modify them, I have decided to buy a Honda. The main reason is ease of parts availability and community support that exists in forums like this.
    I need to decide which year/model to buy. I have listed down my goals for the car
    1. Will be a daily driver
    2. I do plan to do an engine swap along with bolt on modifications for the newer engine(once I have enough knowledge and confidence to work on my own)
    3. I want the car to do somewhere between 12-14 on the 1/4 mile.
    4. My initial budgte for buying the car is $4000. I am willing to spend a total of $10,000 gradually as I go along with planned changes to the car(and I as I accumlate some cash)
    I understand obd0-obd1 and obdIIa/b issues but besides that I dont know much about what issues people face when they do engine swaps.
    Keeping my goals in mind, which year/model car should I buy? What issues have people faced with their current projects that they could have avoided with better selection of platform that they chose to build upon?
     
  2. get_nick

    get_nick These snozzberries taste like snozzberries... VIP

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    eg hatch-$2500
    LEGIT gsr swap-$3000
    Turbo N Tune-$2500

    daily driver that beats the shit out of just about every other car in mass production-priceless.

    get yourself an eg hatch and call it a day.
     
  3. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    I agree with the above post... but you can do it even cheaper and simpler if you stay away from the VTEC engines. Make sure you budget cash for suspension and other incidentals.
     
  4. get_nick

    get_nick These snozzberries taste like snozzberries... VIP

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    yeah, you could save about $1000 if you get an ls instead of a gsr.
     
  5. agarboy

    agarboy Junior Member

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    Thanks for the answers. Couple of more questions
    1. Which will proovide more hp and low end torgue? ls or the gsr engine?
    2. Can I swap a H22A in a civic? by "can" I mean can it be done given my budget and still have a daily use car?
    3.After reading the Engine swap 101 thread, I found out that a H22A swap in civic is not recommended. Why is that?
     
  6. get_nick

    get_nick These snozzberries taste like snozzberries... VIP

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    1. they are about the same in tq. gsr has more top end.
    2. yes you can
    3. it's a pain in the ass because it doesn't fit very well andyou have to modify the firewall a little for the shift linkage. plus you lose any ac or power steering you might have.
     
  7. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    No, you can keep AC and PS in an H22 EG.
     
  8. don_radeon

    don_radeon Bored

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    You want a daily driver than pulls between 12 and 14 in the quater mile?

    I don't know why everyone wants EG hatches. They are ugly, interior sucks like all other civics aside from the newest.. and a car that runs 12s in the quater is going to be hard to drive daily.

    Yeah maybe you could beat most mass production, if by mass production you mean most non-sports cars. Yeah maybe you could almost beat an STi, or maybe you could beat one, but you won't have a better car by any means.
     
  9. trappd-in-859

    trappd-in-859 New Member

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    14 second dd will be really easy with your budget. 13's you could definatly get done with turbo.

    92-95 civic cx: $2-3000 maybe less
    ls engine and b16 trans:$1500-2000
    junkyard turbo kit: $1000 or less
    suspension and brakes: $1000 for decent setup
    tuning: $500-1000
    other accesories(boost gauge, mbc, exhaust, etc.) $500-1000

    So you see, for between $6-8000 you can have a 13sec dd thats reliable.
     
  10. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Everyone wants EG hatches because they're the easiest light platform to shove just about any Honda engine into. The B and H both go in very easily, and the K is simple too. It's rough just trying to put a B in an ED/EF, not to mention an H.
     
  11. d.b.cooper

    d.b.cooper Mid-life Crisis Swap

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    For the money..


    I'd much rather have TWO Turbo GSR EG hatch's With gas money for a couple of years than ONE STI.

    An EG looks a lot nicer than an STI's goofy styling.

    I don't know if I add a turbo to my non-turbo Hatch and get it down in the 12's would make it "hard to drive daily" but I could probably suffer through it.

    And no almost about it. a turbo hatch will take the doors off an STI.

    BTW eventhough the owner of hondaswap drives an STI, this is after all hondaswap. Its not for everyone, but I'm guessing theres a community of enthusiasts that share your views at www.pay25or30kanddriveanSTIoffthedealerslotreallyfast.com .
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2006
  12. don_radeon

    don_radeon Bored

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    Wow, fuck me for giving an example! You act like I'm some fucking STi fanboy, I only used it as an example. :| Didn't know you hated those cars so much.

    You're a moron, you don't realize a car so high-strung that it used to pull over 16 on the quater, that you're making do 12's is going to not only be a bitch to try to drive every day, but it's going to break a lot. If you can barely afford the to tune up the car, you won't be able to afford breaking it all the time.

    Yeah, go ahead and race an STi, like I said (I'm not so sure you read it, because of your STi hate) you might beat it, but you won't have a better all-around car. That goes for EVO's, M3's, and any other car that costs 10X+ what your shitty EG costs that you can stand a chance against.
     
  13. trappd-in-859

    trappd-in-859 New Member

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    There are tons of 12 second daily driven hondas on the road. You can most definatly make a turbo honda reliable enough to drive everyday, it's all in the tuning. It would also help if people didnt drive boosted honda's like jackasses streetracing every car in site. Thats why a lot of affordable performance cars get a bad reliability rep. Young idiots drive them into the dirt, hitting redline in every gear, which in turn, destroys the whole drivetrain prematurely.

    I do agree with the honda not being better than the factory turbo cars it could beat. These cars are more expensive for a reason. Just way more creature comforts than a mid 90's civic. I'd take a new evo/sti over a dd turbo honda anyday because it's newer, awd, and has more factory options.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2006
  14. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Calm down! You're way too high strung and belligerent. If you don't stop attacking people like this, you'll be taking a little mini-vacation.
     
  15. friz

    friz Senior Member

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    My vote is for an eg also. OBD1+Swap anything+light weight+best looking civic ever+cheap parts+low taxes, and Don Radeon hates them, must be good
     
  16. agarboy

    agarboy Junior Member

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    Thanks once again for your answers. More queries
    1. Why cant a 12-14s car which has turbo be a daily driver and be reliable? If tuned properly, will it still breakdown? Is there a reason for this generalization? IMHO, it should depend upon the driver and how he/she keeps the car.
    2. After reading the post, I have been searching for civic egs but they seem really hard hard to find in my area(Centeral Texas-including Houston,Austin,Dallas, San Antonio). Are they really hard to come by? If yes, then what is the next best option which could give me a similar platform to build upon to give similar performacne under the same budget
     
  17. get_nick

    get_nick These snozzberries taste like snozzberries... VIP

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  18. d.b.cooper

    d.b.cooper Mid-life Crisis Swap

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    no reason at all you can't drive daily.

    Mine is driven daily, sometimes 150 miles in a day as fast as traffic will allow. I have a 92 EG with a stock GSR Swap. Tuned by civicious using Uberdata. Never even flickers towards running hot, I live in AZ with temps of over 110 just about everyday. Mine was clocked in the 1/4 at 13.4. I launch this thing hard at nearly every opportunity and only managed finally after several months to shatter the stock clutch disc. New ACT clutch and an LSD later no problems at all.

    Keep in mind that the stock USDM GSR puts out 175 hp,and came from a car (Integra) that you can find all the time with 150-175,000 miles troublefree, but weighs as much as 800 lbs more than an EG. Less weight has a bigger effect on speed and handling than any other modification you could do to an integra. It also places 800 lbs less stress on the entire drivetrain. These are not just reliable, they are bulletproof.

    Thecar is already sub 14 with no forced induction. It would require very little boost to break into the 12 second range. A stock GSR block can easilly handle the mild boost required to shave another second or a second and a 1/2 of the 1/4 mile times. The only worry would be detonation which is the worry on any turbo application. This is addressed in tuning the car by retarding the timing appropriately. A VERY mild set-up with a very conservative tune on 91 pump gas could easilly yield 250 WHP+. 250HP in a 2100 lb car espcially if you used a JDM ITR trans with its shorted final drive gearset should put you comfortably into the low 12's. there are plenty of B-series swapped cars running 300 whp on stock internal components on the street.

    As far as other platforms go, EG's that havent already been swapped (and notably the swapped ones are not often eagerly parted with by their owners) are getting scarce. The coupe version weighs more, but not so much to be unacceptable. I think the Del sol weighs in at even more than the coupe, but its an interesting bodystyle, not for everyone, but I kind of lik 'em. 1989 to 1991 hatchs (EF?) are even lighter and Hassport makes mounts for them, harder swap but its done regularly. If I was going to swap a 89 to 91 honda I'd go with a CRX.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2006
  19. get_nick

    get_nick These snozzberries taste like snozzberries... VIP

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    I call bullshit. I have never seen a "stock" gsr in a hatch run 13.4. with no lsd, slicks, and no bolt ons.i have seen them run 14.0-14.2 range with i/h/e and tuning. post a video for me to believe it. i don't even care if you post the timeslip.
     
  20. trappd-in-859

    trappd-in-859 New Member

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    I agree with d.b. cooper. The ej coupe is the next best option for a swap. You can find del sol's with b16's which would be good since you really wouldn't have to swap to make good power. Every honda in a decently populated area are either hard to come by, or outrageously expensive. 1992-1995 sedans can be found easier than the latter that I listed, but they are heavier, which can be corrected if you are really worried about the weight of the vehicle.

    I'll make a list of popular swapped honda's so you can have something to go by.
    1988-1991 civic hatch, sedan, and crx
    1992-1995 civic hatch, coupe, and sedan
    1990-1993 accord
    1994-1997 accord

    The ones that I left out(1990-2001 integra, 1993-1997 delsol, and prelude) are either not very popular to swap, or the engines that come with the car are kept.
     
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