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New B16 Swap Clutch Problem

Discussion in 'HYBRID -> EG-EK / DC' started by CAFROG, Apr 24, 2009.

  1. CAFROG

    CAFROG Honda Minion VIP

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    I put a B16A JDM in my 92 si last weekend and the clutch relaease is like nothing I've encountered before.

    If I put the clutch all the way to the ground....I hear a noise and the gears go in real rough. If I take my foot off the floor (an inch or two) it shifts like butter.

    I though it could be the check cover plate rubbing against the flywheel but it looks fine.

    I'm at a loss otherwise. I bled the system and burped out any bubbles in the line.

    Any advise?

    A mechanic said it might be the clutch master cylinder (car is almost 20yrs old)

    Not sure if thats it because my LS swap never had trouble.
     
  2. CAFROG

    CAFROG Honda Minion VIP

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    I also installed an F1 lightened flywheel and XTR street clutch before I put it in the car
     
  3. dcasey12

    dcasey12 New Member

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    If you push the clutch right in and it is hard to shift but back out the pedal a bit and its fine, you will find that it is the collar on the thrust bearing actually touching the clutch plate and causing drag, if you pull it out and there are rub marks on the clutch inner that your problem, you may have the wrong thrust bearing but sometimes the collar is only fibre and you can break the extra lip off.
     
  4. CAFROG

    CAFROG Honda Minion VIP

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    Thanks for the information.

    Sucks to think I need to take that stupid transmission out. I just put the swap in.

    Thrust Bearing? Is that the one attached to the inside of the transmission?

    I thought that was the through out bearing

    Is it the bearings that attach to the flywheel?

    Any help would be appreciated
     
  5. dcasey12

    dcasey12 New Member

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    The thrust bearing is the one on the end of the throw out fork and pushes the pressure plat in, when you pull it out you will see a lip on the inside that protudes past the face of the bearing. Start the car and put it in gear with the clutch 3/4 down , then push the clutch right down, if it tries to creep forward this is your problem, its easy to fix with a cable clutch, you just fine tune the adjustment, but not so with hydraulic. The other thing is does the master cylinder match the slave, if its too big it will push out too far.
     
  6. D15Beater

    D15Beater HNFTuning

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    Correct although ive always refered to them as throw out bearings. Sounds to me like he needs to bleed the clutch line, could be wrong though. Maybe a broken pressure plate fin, or two, or three, four.....
     
  7. CAFROG

    CAFROG Honda Minion VIP

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    Its a brand new set up (less then a week) but the throw out bearing thing might be true.

    The line that came with the JDM motor (rubber line) didn't match up to my hook up in the engine bay (JDM fitting was too big) so I took the one off my LS set up and it fit fine. Are you saying this might be the issue too? If so....do i need a whole new slave??

    Guess I have something to do for the next weekend too
     
  8. dcasey12

    dcasey12 New Member

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    The master cylinders and the slave cylinders should have a size on them, I not sure of the specifics of each model , just make sure if you do any mix and matching they still are the same size, if its the case that you have used a smaller slave cylinder or bigger master cylinder it might be a matter of getting the right size one and that may stop the bearing being pushed right in.
     
  9. CAFROG

    CAFROG Honda Minion VIP

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    Well....I'll look into it.

    Wonder if my LS Slave will fit on it...?

    I never had problems with it

    Thanks
     
  10. CAFROG

    CAFROG Honda Minion VIP

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    I hear a whistle noise at idle now. I push the clutch in an inch and it goes away. Sound seems like its coming from the slave cylinder. LS slave all good?
     
  11. intenseneal

    intenseneal New Member

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    Yes the Ls slave will work on any B series hydro trans. The problem you are discribing doesnt sound like the slave cylinder though. Hate to say it but I would drop the trans and check the clutch assembly and the input shalft. The input shaft is the splinded rod coming out of the trans that the clutch slides over. If there is any play in the shaft the trans needs to be rebuilt/replaced. If it is hard to shift gears or grinds when shifting gears then the syncros are going and the trans needs to be rebuild/replaced. Did you use Honda MT Fuild, gear oil or motor oil. The correct answer is Honda Mt Fuild next best is 10w-30 motor oil. Gear oil will kill a Honda trans in a matter of weeks. Just in case there are any people that dont know.
     
  12. intenseneal

    intenseneal New Member

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    You need to drop the trans and check to make sure the clutch was installed correctly. Check for input shaft play. If it is hard to shift gears or grinds when shifting?? All of these aside from a clutch problem will require a tran rebuild/replace.
     
  13. CAFROG

    CAFROG Honda Minion VIP

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    Sorry that I didn't say earlier...but gears shift fine. I just stay off the floor an inch or so and gear change (even quick shifts at high rpm) is fine. Just this noise I hear when its at idle and neutral plus the noise/hard shift into gears when pedal is fully depressed.

    Transmission went together fine. I set the clutch with the alignment tool and transmission went right in (I turned the crank in gear) It set itself as we hovered the trans into the engine with the dowels. I am pretty sure the install went well.

    Just might be this cheap Clutch set up I bought (hoping its only the bearing). I have never heard of XTR but its simply a mild clutch that is roughly stock feel. I paid less then $300 for flywheel and clutch kit and I regret not getting a OEM throw out bearing....and an Excedy or ACT clutch.
     
  14. Fernpatch

    Fernpatch Member

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    The whining in neutral sounds like your input bearing in the transmission is going out. I agree with Intenseneal, you really should pull the trans and check it out.
     
  15. CAFROG

    CAFROG Honda Minion VIP

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    Is there a way to see if the input bearing is bad when I take the transmission out?

    It is a little extensive to change the input bearing (at least from what I've read about it)

    Can I spin the spline manually to check?

    I spun the shaft (from motor) when I put the new clutch/flywhhel kit in and I heard nothing abnormal but didn't spin the spline in the trans that the shaft conects to

    I don't have any loud noises at high speeds and the noise goes away when I push in the clutch at idle. Seems like throw out bearing to me. I feel that it should be connected to the slave, arm, throw out bearing combo. Noise it definetly right around the slave at idle (so I 'think' it the Throw Out Bearing

    Any input would be appreciated

    I....sadly...have two threads on this transmission subject (because I was hoping it was the slave cylinder at first)
     
  16. Fernpatch

    Fernpatch Member

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    when you get the transmission off take the TO bearing off and give it a spin first. If it makes a bunch of noise than replace it. In my experiance a TO bearing will make noise when you push on the clutch where as a input bearing will make the most noise in nuetral. do you hear any noise when your in gear and going down the road? as a input bearing gets worse they will tend to start whining at higher rpms and under heavy loads. You can try to spin the input shaft by hand but I don't think you can really get enough load or speed on the bearing by hand to make it act up.
     
  17. CAFROG

    CAFROG Honda Minion VIP

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    Makes sense. It the sound at idle and neutral does get louder if I rev the motor (still in neutral)

    Seems to shift fine otherwise.

    I hope its that stupid throw out bearing
     
  18. CAFROG

    CAFROG Honda Minion VIP

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    does anyone have a link to instructions on changing the input bearing?

    Or...better yet....could someone direct me to a place that I can purchase a Helms manual??

    I google it and come up with a bunch of crap but I'm trying it again right now
     
  19. Fernpatch

    Fernpatch Member

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  20. CAFROG

    CAFROG Honda Minion VIP

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    thanks I found it.

    is the actual name 'input shaft bearing' ??

    I'm looking but haven't found it in the helms manual.

    I got one but its for Integra motors but I figured its all the same in terms of bearing and such
     
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