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New here! - Looking for opinions - kinda long.

Discussion in 'Accord' started by Lord Helmet, Oct 25, 2008.

  1. Lord Helmet

    Lord Helmet Honda Noob

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    Hi, guys. I'm brand new to the forum and this is my first post, I hope I put it in the right place. I wanted to introduce myself as well as gain some insight from as many of you as possible. I've been reading and searching through some of the posts here today and it looks like many of the members here seem to really know their stuff. This seems like a great forum! I aplogize in advance for a long post but please read it.

    The history:

    My wife and I have a '92 Accord LX wagon with an AT (car #1). The car has just over 240K on the ticker. The car runs perfectly and has (from what I believe to be) the original motor in it and it has never been molested in any way. We've had the car for a little over a year now, we bought it with 218k on it. Since it's purchase we have obviously had to do some repairs. When we bought it, we were provided with a folder thats a 1/2" thick of maintenance records - timing belt (twice over), etc., etc. I won't go into what all we have done to the car since we've had it. I'll go into that later if it's relevant.

    Anyway, my wife wants to keep the car for as long as possible. We have decided to purchase a "parts" car to help keep this one on the road and to keep some cost down.

    The "parts" car:

    I have located a '92 EX sedan that I plan to purchase tomorrow morning for $400. We'll call this car #2 for simplicty's sake. I looked at the car yesterday and determined this car might be in better shape as a whole than #1. It's not missing one part that I noticed, and the car is probably a 6.5 on a scale of 1-10. Here's the thing though, the motor may be shot. It's got 197k on it and the guy that owns it was driving it daily up until a couple weeks ago. I have not heard it run but from what I'm told, it's got a pretty bad knock. Thrown rod maybe? He said he was drivng it up a mountain pass and it just started losing power. I have no idea. I'm no mechanic and I didn't want to try and start it before it was in my possesion. It's also an AT for reference. Owner says tranny shifted fine for the last 8 years so who knows. I don't really care though since #1 has a rebuilt tranny w/warranty in it anyway.

    The plan:

    I plan to have the car towed to my house tomorrow morning and go through it with a fine tooth comb. Am I correctly understanding the EX and LX motors are slightly different but ultimately the same F22's? Will both bolt up the same? There are already a few parts that I plan to swap out from the interior.

    The thing is, I can't get past the fact that car #2 might be in better shape than #1. I have never pulled a motor, nor have I ever torn one completely down (except for a 5hp B&S go-kart motor but that doesn't count IMO), hell I've never done a head gasket for that matter but I know my way around a car. I'm limited with garage tools, i.e. no engine hoist, no lift, and no motor stand. Is there a way I can dig into the motor to diagnose the problem w/o pulling the motor or is it even worth it with 197k on it already?

    I've been reading some stuff here about swapping in the H22(?) motor. Sounds like it's an easy swap, is that right? Maybe this would be a better option altogether? If I decide to put a running motor into this car, I feel obligated to give it some balls. Even if it's an F22 that ends up staying in the car, if I'm gonna do it, I wanna do it right, and I want it to be powerful but reliable enough for my wife to drive it daily. With that said, this is something that I'm willing to put some time into but I'd like to keep the cost down. In reality, an H22 from what I've already priced may be stretching the budget a bit as it is.

    Again, I'm no mechanic but I know my way around an engine bay and I'm not scared to get my hands dirty. I know I'm gonna have to invest in some tools over time but no big deal, I've been looking for an excuse to buy an air-compressor anyway. :D

    In closing, what would you guys do if you were in my shoes? - Besides writting a shorter post, lol.

    Any thoughts, opinions, and/or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!
     
  2. 98sleeper

    98sleeper Bitch Please

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    hmm quite a perdicament lol hmm motor wise f22 aint bad but me personally would do a h22 cuz from what i have read and seen the h22 has the potential for more power but if you want a everyday car you kno nothin special id stick with the f series but it all matter of opinion and if car 2 seems to be in better shape see what it needs before you try to use it before you swap parts to car 1 because you could be in a better position to fix 2 then to try and save 1 but i know how it is with sentimental value and stuff
     
  3. 92stoccord

    92stoccord Big Member VIP

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    H22 is a good performer as far as a little build goes. Has about 200 stock HP. The F22 puts out about 140. In your shoes heres what i would do: buy #2 (lol), yank the motor, cause you don't find one very easily. That is an F22A6. The LX has an F22A1. The A6 is rough to come by. I'd look into rebuilding the motor while driving the wagon. When you get the motor done drop it in the wagon, and start saving. While the H22s produce more ponies, they're not as good for boost as the F22s. The F22 has low compression almost perfect for turbo. Then when you have enough money get yourself a decent turbo kit, and put it in. Here's my reasoning: Wagon kicks ass. slam that shit and put some big wheels on it. They're sweet lookin and make good sleepers. Turbo would be fun, and like you said "give it some balls". The only think i don't like is it's an auto, but then again so is the sedan. The F22A6 is something you don't want to pass up if it's not much of a pain in the ass. If it is, you always have the alternative, the H22. It's amazing what you learn on this website! lol i just joined in Sept, and i know soooo much more than i used to. Good luck in whatever you decide!
     
  4. Lord Helmet

    Lord Helmet Honda Noob

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    Hey, guys. Thanks for the responses so far. Stoccord, I like your idea of a sleeper wagon! I also found the F22A6 stamp under the hood as well on #2.

    We bought #2 this morning and had it towed to the house where she is currently sitting in my driveway in all her glory, lol. Anyway, I put a jump-box on it and gave it a go. It fired right up first try. However, there is deffinately a "knock". It's not a repetative sound though, it's more intermittent. It comes and goes but it is loud. I only ran it for a few seconds cause I don't want to end up with a hole in the block. :eek: If I had to guess, I'd say it's top-end related. The thing is, if it stops knocking for a second, it sounds like it's running perfectly, on all 4. What gives? :dunno:

    I'm in the middle of changing the oil pan gasket on #1 right now. Once I finish that up in the morning, I've got one other task as well. After that I was thinking of sticking #2 in the garage and maybe pulling the top end apart to see if I can figure out what's what. Any suggestions on what I should observe along the way is greatfully appreciated!

    Cheers!
     
  5. 92stoccord

    92stoccord Big Member VIP

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    Why did you pay so much for #2? I do it sometimes twice a day! nah, just messin with ya man.
    So this confuses me, does the wagon have an A6?
     
  6. 98sleeper

    98sleeper Bitch Please

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    obviously so since he said car 2 had one also
     
  7. Lord Helmet

    Lord Helmet Honda Noob

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    Do you really think I paid too much for #2? I thought $400 was a pretty fair deal considering it's a complete car. I'm just asking cause I'm uncertain and wondering.... Maybe I did? :dunno:

    As for #1 having an A6, well... I'm also uncertain about that as well. If you look under the hood on both cars..... motors look identical. Now, the emissons sticker says different. I looked at them both today and although I don't remember what they said exactly, I faintly remember one of them having an "N" and the other having a "Z" in it. I will look tomorrow and post what it says.

    Sleeper, I'm sorry, I don't understand your last post? :confused:
     
  8. caboose

    caboose USDM to the bone

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    Sleeper= Fast car in slow shitty car body. IE. All motor, no show! FTW IMO.

    Anyways. Would F22 Vtec bolt up. I have one in my honda accord. Decently quick and reliable... especially if you wife is driving. Much cheaper than the H22. Just a though.
     
  9. 98sleeper

    98sleeper Bitch Please

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    eh a sleeper isnt neccesaily all motor n shitty car the basic idea of a sleeper it to apear totally stock form the outside and have an ass stomping motor inside
     
  10. 98sleeper

    98sleeper Bitch Please

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    no if you paid 400 for the complete car you can part it out for more so its not bad...i was sayin...stoccord asked if car 2 had a A6 after you had the post that stated both cars have the same motor..if im wrong i stand corrected
     
  11. 93civicracer

    93civicracer Oh, I do a little here and there.

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    200 hp in a 92 Accord sedan? Sounds like plenty of get-up and go to me right there for something you'll be letting the wife drive :). That much power alone from a stock H22 will be fun in that little car. And the H22 engine would cost probably about the same as turbocharging the F22 since it would take nothing short of a turbo to make an F22 match an H22, but would be more reliable and the stock H22 can still easily handle some very mild boost say, 5 psi or something.

    Then you could just do like I did, go for some small gains from basic bolt-ons like intake, header, and exhaust should free up maybe 10 combined hp plus give you a nice exhaust tone but don't do it too outrageous.

    If H22's are direct bolt in to Accords the way the D15B was direct bolt in to my Civic then it should be all too easy to install, just make sure you get everything for it like the same tranny and especially the ecu. I think engine swaps are harder with an auto tranny, I dunno mine's 5-speed but whatever you do, good luck, you certainly came to the right place for advice.
     
  12. 92stoccord

    92stoccord Big Member VIP

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    I was making a poo joke. Sorry.

    That's what confused me. Wasn't sure if you meant #1 had an F22A6 as well as #2 or if you just found out that #2 had one. Didn't think you mentioned anything about #1 having one before this. I was just confused.

    Anyway, the H22 is probably a better option for you if you wanna do it quick and easy, but I'm doing the turbo option because of the interest in building a turbo, and the power that can be harvested. It really depends if you have some time to play around and build before the swap in. Honestly wouldn't worry about boosting the H22. Really thats down on you man. Both good options. it's your call. As for transmissions, the F22 and H22 are compatable, but as for the 5spd, the H22 does have a more desirable gear box.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2008
  13. BrutalB83

    BrutalB83 Brutal Moderator Moderator VIP

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    Meh, they're also heavier, which would take away a bit from the fun. Adding bigger wheels wouldn't help that issue out any either...

    The VTEC F22B1 will drop in and bolt up, but honestly, all you really need is the head. It will bolt on to the older F22 blocks.

    A turbo'd F22 will spank a stock H22. Keep in mind that the H22 makes 200 horses at the crank, not at the wheels. By the time the power hits the ground you're looking at more like 160-170 horses. A turbo'd F22 can put 200 horses to the pavement. It's definitely the best bang for the buck...
     
  14. 93civicracer

    93civicracer Oh, I do a little here and there.

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    What I was trying to say is that it would take nothing less than a turbo for the F22 to match the H22 (or surpass it) and that a stock H22 Accord might be quick enough for him, since you can get a complete H22 swap from hmotors with ~45,000 miles on it for less than a (decent) turbo kit, and he sounds new to this so building his own turbo system for cheap would probably be out of the question.

    Then if you want more you can turbocharge the H22 later on when the money's there and you'll have a younger engine to start with.

    That's the route I'd take.
     
  15. 92stoccord

    92stoccord Big Member VIP

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    Yeah, i know big wheels wouldn't help, but they're sexy on a wagon. Again, the weight is a pain in the behind, but I've seen a couple wagons and they look good if you drop them a little, and black out the windows. little bit of power sacrafice, but I think itd be worth it.
    I wouldn't suggest turboing the H22. I've heard that they do really poor on the juice.
     
  16. 98sleeper

    98sleeper Bitch Please

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    im not sure if anyone asked but SOHC or DOHC??
     
  17. 92stoccord

    92stoccord Big Member VIP

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  18. Lord Helmet

    Lord Helmet Honda Noob

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    They are both SOHC. And I think the only A6 is in the EX, not in the LX wagon. The LX (#1) is an A1.
     
  19. Lord Helmet

    Lord Helmet Honda Noob

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    Well, I pulled off the valve cover on #2 tonight. I didn't see anything in there that looked abnormal. Then again, I've already said I'm no mechanic by any means. I pulled the spark plugs too and wow... LOTS of oil in those tubes, it nearly covered my socket! After the first one came out like that I had the wife snap a couple pics as I took them out. My guess is the spark plug tube seals were/are pretty much shot. That is unless anyone has any other ideas as to why they would be full of oil??

    I also had her snap a couple photos of the valve train while she was snapping.

    Here's the pics.... Does anyone see anything that should or shouldn't be there? I know it's probably hard to tell from pics.

    I'm not sure how tight those little springs between the rocker arms are supposed to be (not the valve springs) but I can easily slide the rocker arms from left to right a little. Maybe thats normal movement but I thought it should have been tighter than that. I would have never thought there would be play in them like that. :dunno:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Spark plugs:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Here's all of them after I cleaned the oil off:

    [​IMG]
     
  20. 98sleeper

    98sleeper Bitch Please

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    eh wasnt payin attention its been one of those days
     
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