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Nitrous = good

Discussion in 'Members' Lounge' started by Magana559, May 18, 2010.

  1. Magana559

    Magana559 The Warden

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  2. K2e2vin

    K2e2vin Senior Member

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    Nice! I plan on joining that club, though not on the same level and not soon; 13.5:1CR D15B VTEC with 100hp dry shot(Megasquirt/Flex Fuel and ITBs).
     
  3. Magana559

    Magana559 The Warden

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    what fuel are you going to use? Wonder how E85 dose with nitrous?
     
  4. GSRCRXsi

    GSRCRXsi Super Moderator Moderator VIP

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    Keep in mind that that's a dynapack. So numbers are at the hub, not the wheels. Whp won't be too much less though. But did they not show the hp numbers with the nitrous? I didn't see it in the vid. Just the graph but I couldn't see the numbers
     
  5. K2e2vin

    K2e2vin Senior Member

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    "Flex fuel", pretty much E85 when I can get it or regular 93 octane. I've seen some pretty impressive numbers with E85 in both NA and FI though.
     
  6. Magana559

    Magana559 The Warden

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    Close to the end it flashes 400hp 300tq


    I have seen awesome numbers on boost but haven't seen anything with nitrous and E85.

    I think this guy was at a 16:1, but Im not sure if that was his last engine or this one.

    The good thing about E85 is that its cheaper than regular gasoline and performs like race gas. The downer is getting it! I don't know why Fresno didn't get a E85 station! And to make things worst VP stopped selling 100 at the pump! only 87 89 and 91! :mad:

    If I had easy access to E85 I would be running a 13:1-14:1 comp ratio instead of 11.5:1 Would have at least squeezed out another 15-20hp and about 10-15Tq.
     
  7. INJEN78

    INJEN78 HS LEGEND

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    blown headgasket?? look at the catch can setup..smokes alot out the fikter under load
     
  8. K2e2vin

    K2e2vin Senior Member

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    IIRC, there's dimensioning returns past about 14:1 ratio and I probably wouldn't be able to take advantage of it with street fuels. Though, with my engine the combustion chamber would be VERY small(it's still under 1.6l) so it wouldn't work out so well for me anyways.

    E85 stations are rare around here too hence why I'm using Flex fuel compatible ECU(Megasquirt). It's very possible to run high compressions on pump as long as it's tuned and combustion chamber has been "optimized". There's quite a few people rolling around with ~12.5-13.5CR on pump fuels. One guy was boosting on 11.5:1 CR though I forgot what fuel he was using(IIRC made about 400hp with low boost).
     
  9. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Wow, now that's a nice setup! Power figures look like what I was shooting for on my GSR way back in the day.

    Nope. Ever watch a catch can in action on a high compression block? It's just doing its job. High temp/pressure oil smokes out like that.
     
  10. Magana559

    Magana559 The Warden

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    Thats normal on a high revving honda engine, its vaporized oil that was caught in the crankcase and now released into the atmosphere instead of it going into the intake and contaminating the A:F mix.
     
  11. GSRCRXsi

    GSRCRXsi Super Moderator Moderator VIP

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    I have a 11.8:1 comp 215whp NA B18C. My catch can vents straight out of the block with no PVC valve or stock oil canister. Barely anything comes out of it and it almost never gets oil accumulation in the can. It does seem to be puting out a lot of smoke. Might have something to do with the setups being different but I still didnt expect to see that much coming out.

    About E85, it gives some nice gains like race gas does, and it's cheaper, cleaner, and cooler. But it doesn't have the same amount of energy that petroleum based fuels have. So you have to rum a much richer mix. Like 9:1 vs. 13:1. This is a non issue for race cars, but you will need bigger injectors, a different tune, and gas mileage will suffer. Also E85 is only abundant in select areas, and if you aren't in those areas, E85 almost isn't even an option.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2010
  12. Magana559

    Magana559 The Warden

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    Ah I see, now what do you mean by getting the head "optimized" ? I want to run a 13:1 when I get my vtec head built.
     
  13. Magana559

    Magana559 The Warden

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    Ah I see, now what do you mean by getting the head "optimized" ? I want to run a 13:1 when I get my vtec head built.
     
  14. K2e2vin

    K2e2vin Senior Member

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    Just combustion chamber shape really.

    On my motor, specifically, it has a much smaller bore than the B-series(OS to 76mm) and the head will be milled close to the valve seat to create a much smaller CC and create quench pads(and adjusting piston-head clearance as close as possible to create the tightest quench). In addition to that, the pistons I'm using are pretty close to flat-top(about a .5cc dish); this helps with flame propagation, aids in flow within the cylinder(no dome to disrupt the flow), and reduces the chance of hot-spots. All of this(minus flow) in theory, should help reduce the chance of detonation.

    As far as the difference in stoich, etc., between E85 and unleaded, this is why I'm going to use Megasquirt(actually still waiting on the full release of MS3/MS3X). I did a LOT of digging and MS is the only one that can take advantage of a flex-fuel sensor(though there was another company I talked to, may have been Solaris, that are interested in implementing it); so pretty much means you can run unleaded, E85, or mix them! Of course, tuning just gets more difficult.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2010
  15. Magana559

    Magana559 The Warden

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    Ahh I see! Thanks for the info, Really learned a lot. I didnt know that domed pistons have inefficient flame travel VS a flat top piston. But now that I really think about it, It makes perfect sense.

    Now megasquirt is a management system like hondata but it can tell the difference between E85-91-and a blend of the two? Dose it require a wideband o2 hooked up at all times to manage the Air to fuel? I would think tuning would be a pain!
     
  16. GSRCRXsi

    GSRCRXsi Super Moderator Moderator VIP

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    Sounds like there's just a special sensor that senses the octane rating (or maybe something else) and adjusts the fuel map accordingly.

    Megasquirt is powerful, but not as user friendly as something like hondata or crome or others. Megasquirt is hardware too isn't it? Like a full DIY ecu, not just a chipped ecu. I thought I remeber seeing that somewhere.
     
  17. K2e2vin

    K2e2vin Senior Member

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    Megasquirt is a standalone ECU; you can buy it as a kit and put it together yourself or buy it already assembled from certain companies(like DIYPNP, who makes a "plug-in" version for different cars so you don't need a custom harness).

    Yes, the ethanol sensor(aka Flex fuel sensor) is just a sensor that detects ethanol. From the research I've done, surprisingly only Megasquirt supports this sensor(it outputs a frequency/pwm instead of voltage like most sensors; though Zeitronics has a converter). It can run without O2 sensor like a chipped Honda ECU and can read both wide and narrow bands.

    Yes, it can detect the differences between 91 and E85 by ethanol content(E85 is supposed to be 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline; but in colder climates the ethanol content is lower). So if you put straight E85 in there, it would output "85%", and if it was straight gasoline it would output "0%". Megasquirt uses a multiplier to modify the fuel maps based on ethanol content so the plan is just to initially tune on 93 then on E85 to see how much modification to the fuel and ignition maps are necessary.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2010
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