Discussion in 'ECU's, Electronics, and Tuning' started by 2lua, Dec 4, 2003.
can a p28 be chip to have (gsr) dual runner working?
Long answer - Yes, but it's not just the program that opens the IAB's, and if you are using a OBD2 engine, you will need to rewire the IAB for the OBD1 (-) trigger.
if it can then where can it get the chip for it. btw it be use on an obd1.
As I said before, it's not just the chip. There are hardware modifications that need to be done as well. PM me for more info.
BTW- All P28's are OBD1 only.
are you saying your using this on a OBD1 engine? If so, then you won't need to rewire the IAB's.
Hey Allmotormoster, you got pm
the info is called the PGMFI wiki. It can be found at http://wiki.pgmfi.org "AddIABToP28"
Don't hoard knowledge AMM... That's how you get on my shitlist in a hurry. You were saying that it couldn't be done until recently when I started posting info.
(In any case, I'll bet you $5 that he's prob not gonna want to solder it together himself anyways!)
If everyone gave everything away, what would be left?
I'm not hoarding anything, don't be do quick to jump to conclusions.
I've been working on ecu's for longer than PGM has been around, granted the site has some great info, but there's a little something to be said about "keeping things under wraps"
thanks for you guys helps. i don't want to start a war here...lol
You sir, are an assclown. It's my understanding after talking to several people you didn't even KNOW IAB on anything except a P72 was *possible* until someone hit you with the clue bat. Now I have never posted or even read these forums before (hey I can only be so many places at one time!) but already I don't like you. I can pretty much assure you only 1 or 2 commercial dealers were adding IAB before pgmfi figured it out (I won't go specific on user names here.. they know who they are).
With knowledge comes the responsibility to share it.
"If everyone gave everything away, what would be left?"
What would be left is a honda scene without grab asses like yourself trying to make a buck off of the backs of people who donate their time to the cause. I'd even wager you use one of the pgmfi free editors for your 'business' because lord knows you've never had an original idea.
Sorry to the admins/mods for flaming, but this guy should be banned.
So now I'm a assclown for providing a service at a reasonable price?? I see....
And I'm also an assclown because I learned how to convert the P28 ecu by buying one from someone who knew how to do it before I did, and figured it out on my own? Yes, back in the day I bought a P06 converted to P28 by Katman if you were wondering.
I'm also an assclown because I don't give the farm away and I believe in the American way?
So you would have it be like this.
Work hard, do good work, and not get paid. If you think this is the way, I sincerly hope you take a couple of economics classes in your lifetime and learn how our economy works.
Please do tell me who hit me in the head with the so called "clue bat".
The way you're speaking, I'm not quite sure I like you either. Coming in here half cocked and full of yourself.
Let's check the facts:
Did I attack you? - No
Did you come here and belittle and attack me? - Yes
Who exactly is the "assclown"? This could have been handled in a professional manner, but you chose not to handle it in such a way.
Actually I paid for HRED before I knew who actually made it, and yes I do use John Cui's program. Excellent stuff and my hat's off to him for his and others great work. Do I sell it on Ebay or anywhere else? No way. But I'll bet some others on PGMFI do. In fact, you're so UP on sharing information, why not give it to EVERYONE with instructions and a toll-free number the user can call so you can walk them through the process.
Really now, do you think the guys at Hondata give their info away to just anyone? Wonder why they are successful? Do you call the guys at Hondata assclowns too for not sharing source code? Some how, I think not.
If guys like you ruled the world, no one would have the ability to make a better life, and we would all be "equal". Well, except those few that still run the world and make decisions. It's called socialism, and I prefer democracy, where we can make choices.
So, you keep giving the farm away, and I'll still be here. When you get tired of doing things for free, you let me know and we can talk again.
You know, I'm still wondering where you got your info about me telling people the P28 couldn't be converted to work the IAB's. You guys BOTH have mentioned it, so let's see the link.
Oh, wait, what's this?
Is this the Pot calling the Kettle black????
Thought you gave it away for free, but yet ????? $75 ?? $100 ???
Now I really don't like you guys because not only are your hypocrites, you're two faced as well.... "do as I say, not as I do" attitude.
I hope all you readers see the real truth, at least I'm honest about what I do and use.
AMM, you've made some points, and I'd like to respond in a civil manner. My time is valuable to me, and I have better things to do than argue over this. This will be my last response to you on these matters. What I have to say is fairly simple, and nothing you have said has even remotely knocked me off my game.
By the way, I sent you PMs and emails a long time ago (at least a week or two) saying, "hey, lets try to work together, the bickering on hondaswap is silly." I didn't call you names. I didn't criticize you. I don't recall saying much more than "we can do more working together than stepping on each other's toes." You have yet to respond.
1. In response to "You know, I'm still wondering where you got your info about me telling people the P28 couldn't be converted to work the IAB's. You guys BOTH have mentioned it, so let's see the link." I have a couple things to say. Show ME a link where you actually try to help anyone try to add the functionality to a P28. I specifically recall you (and possibly pissedoffsol too) both saying that a P72 is required to run IABs, to which I posted a link to the Wiki information on this. Regardless, the person who figured this information out (Vernon Brunges, RaVeR Motorsports) shared it with me, and I shared it with the world on his behalf by posting it on the Wiki.
2. I can't be positive you didn't take a multimeter and trace the IAB signal line in a P28 since you don't share your wisdom with others, but I'm fairly certain that you wouldn't have had that information without the generousity and spirit of intellectual exchange at PGMFI. I'm going to make a presumption here. If I'm wrong, you can tell me and I will graciously apologize and stand corrected. I'm going to presume that you read the information on the Wiki about IAB conversion, and didn't figure it out yourself with a multimeter and your noggin. If this is true, I'm going to have to echo GimpyCivic's statement that you are an assclown because you try to sell a kid a service with information you got for free before trying to educate him first. If you had said, "You can learn here blah blah blah but if you don't want to solder it yourself, drop me an email." I would have nothing to say to you, and no complaint whatsoever with your actions.
3. Very specifically: I am not mad at you for chipping ECUs. I am not mad at you for using PGMFI tools in your ventures - if they've improved the quality of service you offer, that's great. I'm not mad at you for using information you learned at PGMFI for personal gain. I'm dissapointed with you for selfishly hoarding information given to you for free in an attempt to make more money for yourself by keeping kids ignorant.
4. I chip ECUs for people. I used to charge $100, but I've gotten a lot better at soldering and as Dave J. (tungsten2k) said in that thread: "some of us don't have a sweet *ss desoldering station where the chips just jump off like you do dave so we can't match your pricepoint" ... I decided to charge $75 because its less work and I feel it is more fair to the customers to pass savings on down. I use the IAB info from PGMFI. I charge extra, for the transistors I had to special order(speaking of which AMM, if you need any SK5151s, hit me up.) I use crome or UberData to make chips. I was one of the first people selling the original version of UberData for Blake because I did not want one of the more gifted coders to wander by PGMFI to quit coding in his spare time and get a job at McDonalds so he had money for a turbo for his car! I plan fully on charging for a profit for the site for the new boards allowing realtime changes to the car's program while it is running. By the way, the board design is there for free for you to download and look at it. I have at least 50 hours in it, but I'm not really that concerned if you or another selfish bastard tries to rip it off because I can guarantee you PGMFI can make them cheaper than anyone else. And we will. Point of this paragraph: I make money from chipping. I make money from making chips for people. I will be making money assembling surface mount RTP boards, and PGMFI will be making money from the sale of the boards / kits. I never said I didn't make money from this stuff. Take a look through this forum, and PGMFI and see how much effort I put forth to help people who want to help themselves learn and compare that to your "pay me to do it for you" attitude. Take a look at how many programs I've made from people end up in the tuning section of PGMFI for everyone's benefit. Take a look at the new OBD0 boost code I posted (with full commented source) that is a quantum leap beyond the initial GhD/TE MAPhack bin, which represents at least 20 hours of my time. Take a look at http://www.nitroburn.com/pgmfiwiki/index.p...onToECUChipping - an article I wrote for a friend's Car 'Zine to try to help educate people on how to chip ECUs themselves. Take another look at that thread where you call me a hypocrit, and see how much of a crybaby I am that Andy Jones decided to charge $25 less than I did, and got the business.
You know, I don't think myself, Vernon (who figured out the current method to add IAB control) or any of the other politically powerful members of PGMFI would care about you using the information for personal gain if you simply made an effort to educate those who wanted to learn on their own! As I'm sure you know, for every person who wants to learn about ECUs and chipping, there are at least a dozen who would rather pay someone else to do it for them. Sharing information on ECUs and management doesn't hurt your market significantly - it helps the honda community grow and develop beyond a bunch of "riceboys" more into a community where real tuning happens.
I started PGMFI around April of 02 because I was happy an excited to have a new hobby (cars - changed my first alternator in October '01, completed my first motor swap several months later) and I wanted to give something back to the honda (specifically: CRX) community that was so warm, welcoming and helpful to me in my infantile state. Being a computer geek, I thought that addressing the state of ECU tuning tools was something fairly unique that I could give back to the scene. With Zdyne Golds costing close to a grand, and boost-enabled Hondatas abbout the same, I knew my tasks. Witness, the birth of PGMFI, a site founded on open-source mentality code development and the free exchange of information. We're humans - there have been some really big bickering/arguments. I've done a decent amount of shady shit to get things to where they are at today. I've made more than a couple deals with the devil of one variety or another to get to where things are today. I also stood down as head Admin not too long ago, because I questioned whether my vision, judgement, ability to deal with users and problem solving skills were up to the task. :-/
Things have come a long way since the humble beginnings. As of two seconds ago, 1873 users are registered. 12,000 hits from 573 unique IPs on Friday, not including the Wiki.
I bring all this history up so you can see where I am coming from. I am done arguing with you. It's not going to help either of us. I am going to continue trying to demystify ECUs and make quality tools and ROMs available, for free, for everyone to use. You can do what you want to. I really don't care. The only thing you stand to lose at this point is my respect. If it's valuable to you, so be it. If not, whatever. In the wise words of an early mentor, the comedian Dennis Leary: "Fuck him, throw him in the fire, more meat for the other meat eaters. RAAAAAAAA!"
Live free or die.
That's all I got to say.
AMM, I thought I'd register here and throw my $0.02 in.
You know Dave and Andrew not at all. I've met the former IRL, drove 5 hours to have the priviledge and give him a B18B, and everything I've seen of the latter is testimony to his even temper, intellect, and honest manner.
Now, I like a spirited argument as much as the next guy, and have been known to pick a fight or two in my time, but I think you're a little off base on this subject. If you want to argue facts with them (good luck) that's all well and good, but your grasp of them as people is poor at best. You should refrain from commenting about people you don't know, it reflects on your character.
To: radnulb and anyone else interested.
This is not an arguement, I'm not angry or fustrated, let's just start from the beginning.
Look at the top of this thread. Do you see anywhere that I said I wouldn't give out the information? I simply told the poster to PM me. I also told the poster that it was not just software to make the IAB's work, it was hardware involved also. Please notice no where did the poster ask me or anyone else to divulge "how to do the work".
But yet I am accused of not sharing information that was not asked for. Wouldn't you agree?
Now on to your post.
- True, you did send me PM's about this, true I did not respond, but yet from that point on we did not "bicker/argue" about anything up until this point. I have refrained from making further comments if I disagreed with you. I just left it as it was.
1- If you mean by help = refer people to your site, no I have not. If you mean by help/inform/instruct fellow members about ecu chipping, what or what not to use, how to identify items, yes I have many times.
2- Actually I spent a lot of time trying to get the IAB's to work on the P28, I was so close, but missed the mark. Thus I had to buy a IAB equipped P28 and find out what I missed. In the end, I did figure it out, but only by using the purchased ecu.
3- Once again, I am not "hording" information. One cannot give an answer to a question never asked.
I think PGMFI is a great asset to the Honda community. I have been working on honda vehicles since 1995. I've done dozens of motor swaps in every year from 1985 to 2001 Honda Acura vehicles.
What gets me, and don't take this personal, is that "WE" (those of use that learned the hard way) are almost expected to give our information and time away for nothing. Take certain webboards (not this one or PGMFI) for instance. A new member comes on board and want's to know exactly how to do something (pick anything you want). Does the user USE the search button? NO, they simply ask you to tell them how to do it without spending an ounce of energy researching even the basic understanding of how it works.
So, should I as an experienced person just GIVE out all my information to this new user, even though they don't even have the slightest little bit of understanding? Is that fair to me and countless others that have learned the hard way?
Personally? No, I don't.
NOW, if you (the new user) have done some research and are having a "specific" problem that I can help you with, I will gladly "HELP" you out, but I will NOT be your babysitter, nor will I guide you through the entire process for nothing. At least have the courtsey to show some signs of intellect before asking "US" to help you.
And Dave, I think you actually feel the same way I do down deep.
That's all. No arguement, no bickering. Just how I feel.
*** I am not speaking for everyone, the terms "US" and "WE" are just general in nature ***
"2- Actually I spent a lot of time trying to get the IAB's to work on the P28, I was so close, but missed the mark. Thus I had to buy a IAB equipped P28 and find out what I missed. In the end, I did figure it out, but only by using the purchased ecu."
Well, I doubt you spent much time trying to get it to work... One post you're saying it can't be done on anything but p72s and the next you have a whole different outlook... Thanks to blundar who obviously clued you in... You also just openly admitted to buying a P28 with IAB hardware added so you could "figure it out" and use the knowledge... How is that any different than copying the info from the wiki and using it? Weak man... real weak...
Part of the reason I don't post alot of my findings up on pgmfi and the wiki is because of people like you who like to copy other people's stuff and use it for their own profitable benefit... You're just another leech as far as I'm concerned... Making money off of other people's hard work...
You wouldn't have told that kid how it works even if he did specifically ask that question... I do this for a living as well and yet I don't sway away from helping the people who are trying to help themselves... I also have mad respect for the people at pgmfi... I don't offer IAB hardware mods for P28s because I didn't discover it myself... That's their time and hard work, I'm not going to make money off it... That info is there for DIY'ers, not to boost your business... As a fellow developer (You do develop right, not just leech?) I hope you would have the decency to see that... I'm sure if you actually did discover something useful and decided to post it on a DIY forum you wouldn't appreciate someone else making money off of it... But then again you probably wouldn't post it in the first place...
My $.02... And if you're that stuck on using other people's time and info to make money... You can keep the $.02 I just gave you...
Oh please....get off you high horse.
I guess you have never learned anything by watching someone else do it have you? You taught yourself everything you know huh? Figured everything out without anyone's help at all.....
give me a break
Will someone, ANYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PLEASE POST THE LINK that shows me telling ANYONE that the IAB mod could NOT be done....
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!!!
Because you all talk about it, let's see the goods.......
As the old addage goes, PUT UP OR SHUT UP.
Implied in that post is that a P28 does not run IABs.
Can we drop this now? I'm getting sick of seeing you make an ass of yourself. It's not at all becoming...
when did you say it was discovered that you could run IABs with a p28??
This is all you got?
So let me clarify this so you all know.
The p28 chipped alone will not run the IAB's. If you do the hardware mods and chip it with a GSR program (not mentioned by anyone else here yet, but I'm the bad guy not willing to help anyone) it still will not run the IAB's UNLESS you change the wiring on the OBD2b engine harness from the stock (+) IAB solenoid trigger to the OBD1's stock (-) trigger.
Is that better now? This thread is now just a troll-fest.
Whatever, this is a joke now.......
Separate names with a comma.