Partisan politics: Has it gone too far?

[saturn_boy96]

so what can we do to change it?

 

[TurboMirage]

god damn i love the devils advocate.

 

[Capt. Orygun]

so what can we do to change it?

that's my point, America has lost interest in retaing the social fabric that lead to it's rise of power and has no interest in restoring it. The majority of us are only interested in self serving ideals "I don't care I didn't vote for him so it doesn't interest me" and don't realize that in not keeping with the formula for American success they are actually killing thier long term oppertunity to accomplish these greedy little plans they have.

 

[Celerity]

I'm not allowed on the Far right side anymore. I don't have the pro-life stance. It's slightly modified.

If I go on about Political sides, then I'm doing the Republican / Democrat thing. Both parties suck, at least in terms of personality and ethics.

What I go on about are viewpoints. Conservative and Liberal. I truly believe that Liberalism is destroying not only this country, but this world.

Blaming Bush for just about anything is plain ignorant. You're thinking in terms that he's the Emperor. His power is not absolute, even in places it should be (He's commander-in-chief and has to ask for votes to deploy more troops to a war zone? That's ridiculous)

I'm also into conspiracy theory. The problem is that modern conspiracy theorists can't be reasoned with because of their hatred of George Bush.

He WON the popular vote in 2000 and 2004. Get a grip. It was close, but you should review the timeline of events during those campaigns. Gore shit a brick when he lost, and called for the recounts.

 

[saturn_boy96]

i fully agree.

but how do we change a society that has been taught it's entire life that seeking after #1 is the only american value?

 

[Capt. Orygun]

realistically if history is any indication

lots of tragedy, or a good reality check

humanity as a whole is unable to realize they're inability to see their impending doom, go read my 60 days thread for more on this

 

[Sabz5150]

realistically if history is any indication

lots of tragedy, or a good reality check

humanity as a whole is unable to realize they're inability to see their impending doom, go read my 60 days thread for more on this

They call it a revolution. It was the big reality check that built this country and it's the one that will rebuild it. People said "Fuck this shit!" and made a change. Time to do it again. I do believe in the Constitution it says that if this government doesn't work, it is the responsibility of the people to tear it down and rebuild anew.

 

[DarkHand]

They call it a revolution. It was the big reality check that built this country and it's the one that will rebuild it. People said "Fuck this shit!" and made a change. Time to do it again. I do believe in the Constitution it says that if this government doesn't work, it is the responsibility of the people to tear it down and rebuild anew.

We may not have reached that point quite yet, but we're flying towards it at Mach 10.

There's that quote talking about the 4 boxes to use when defending freedom... Soap, Ballot, Jury, Ammo. In that order. The American people as a whole have finally reached the 'Ballot' stage. If that proves to not work, we need to keep trying different boxes.

I watch shows like Futureweapons on the Discovery channel and it depresses the hell out of me. Bullets that can pierce entire tanks, handguns more powerful than the assault weapons of old, stealth fighters, supersoldier body armor, etc. How in the world do we, our children or our grandchildren fight back against things like that? All I keep with me is the realization that the revolutionaries were equally outmanned, outgunned, and outfunded, and they were still able to attain their freedom. When the time finally comes, lets hope history does repeat.

 

[Celerity]

So you're afraid of what you see on TV ?

I would also like to point out that people applauded when Cyndi Sheehan stated that she "wishes (I) could go back in time and kill George Bush before he started the war"

These people are Moonbats.

 

[Sabz5150]

We may not have reached that point quite yet, but we're flying towards it at Mach 10.

There's that quote talking about the 4 boxes to use when defending freedom... Soap, Ballot, Jury, Ammo. In that order. The American people as a whole have finally reached the 'Ballot' stage. If that proves to not work, we need to keep trying different boxes.

I watch shows like Futureweapons on the Discovery channel and it depresses the hell out of me. Bullets that can pierce entire tanks, handguns more powerful than the assault weapons of old, stealth fighters, supersoldier body armor, etc. How in the world do we, our children or our grandchildren fight back against things like that? All I keep with me is the realization that the revolutionaries were equally outmanned, outgunned, and outfunded, and they were still able to attain their freedom. When the time finally comes, lets hope history does repeat.

The same way we defeated England and their massive army/navy: Allies. If the French had not helped us out, the sun to this day would not set on the British flag.

See, as much as most people hate the French, you gotta give them at least that. The Statue of Liberty was a nice gift too

There are people around the world that want to see change in America as much as many of us do here at home. If a second civil war does break out, they'll come to the aid of the revolutionaries. Countries will also come to the aid of the defenders.

There's your WWIII for ya.

 

[Celerity]

Chavez, Putin, IWannajihad, Hassan, ... yup. These are the guys that are waiting to fund an uprising.

 

[saturn_boy96]

I live in Cali where bi-partisan politics has been a 100% flying success! How? Compromise. One party isn't trying to completely run the show and run the other party out of the country. When you look at Washington, you don't see bi-partisan anything. You see hate. You see greed. You see the divide that's spreading down to grass roots America. This hasn't been a time of "what's best for America?" it's been a time of "what's best for the Republican party?" and that charge has been lead by the Bush Administration.

dude if the america you dream of looks like Cali i'm terrified for all of us. that place has laws against everything, and it doesn't make your society any more civil than the rest of "rural" america.

 

[Celerity]

And don't even try to say that "slick Willy" wasn't a Republican cry for Clinton's entire term in office and that he had Republican respect. Need I remind you that it was hypocritical Republicans who tried to ruin the man for doing the exact same thing they were doing? Something about the lead monkey having a "love child that he'd been knowingly supporting while publically decrying Clinton the biggest anti-American in history? The mirror sees both ways with this bullshit. Too bad Clinton did a far better job of actually running the country than Bush has. Clinton got his dick sucked behind closed doors. All Bush has done is put us into the hands of the Chinese bank system through our ridiculous sized debt and send American boys to their deaths over bullshit."


Moonbat alert. Nothing to see here, move along.

 

[Celerity]

Oh god I have to throw up.

 

[Capt. Orygun]

You're right. It really does suck living in an open-minded state that also happens to be the world's fifth largest economy.

oh get off it, of corse the raw economy numbers are high, a one bedroom condo runs $400,000. Run away inflation IS NOT the sign of a strong community

 

[DarkHand]

I can't find it right now, but there's a bumper sticker on Cafepress that says something along the lines of: "Independent Voter. Because we're all on the same side" I think that sums up the point of the OP pretty well.

This next question isn't rhetorical, isn't meant as a jab at any one person or political affiliation or party. It's an honest question based on observation on my part:

Would it be correct to say that both liberals and conservatives, in the way we tend to use the terms here (god I hate separating belief systems in such a binary matter, but it works for this question) have the same ideals for the country at heart, but they prioritize them differently? It seems both sides have liberty and safety at the top of their lists. Both very high priorities, but switched around in terms of #1 and #2 priority. 'Liberals' seem to place the pursuit of Liberty first, and safety second. 'Conservatives' seem to place safety first, and liberty second. Would this be more or less correct? If not, why?

Once again that's a legitimate, honest question. There's no double meaning behind it, no derision of any one or any thing implied.

 

[Sabz5150]

I believe that safety can be achieved without sacrificing liberty. The two should NEVER be mutually exclusive.

 

[DarkHand]

I believe that safety can be achieved without sacrificing liberty. The two should NEVER be mutually exclusive.

Absolutely. But as far as a mental 'list' of priorities is concerned, it's my observation that that's how the ordering works for the most part. Hard choices that might sacrifice a little of one for the other, for example.

 

[Capt. Orygun]

Would it be correct to say that both liberals and conservatives, in the way we tend to use the terms here (god I hate separating belief systems in such a binary matter, but it works for this question) have the same ideals for the country at heart, but they prioritize them differently? It seems both sides have liberty and safety at the top of their lists. Both very high priorities, but switched around in terms of #1 and #2 priority. 'Liberals' seem to place the pursuit of Liberty first, and safety second. 'Conservatives' seem to place safety first, and liberty second. Would this be more or less correct? If not, why?

Once again that's a legitimate, honest question. There's no double meaning behind it, no derision of any one or any thing implied.

No we're both the same in that we want the best for the country we jest see different things as being what's best

Let's look at healthcare

DEMS: We need a government health care system. Using tax dollars we can create a system where everyone can see a doctor, get an RX, long term care. This will raise the quality of life for every American.

GOP: Health care should stay private. if you give free health care to the poor then they, and the ultra rich who don't worry about bills, will have a higher quality of life then the middle class who will still buy their own health care because the quality is better then the free system. And the last thing we need is an RX system built by the lowest bidder. And why should I pay more in taxes to buy health care for other people? You want it? This is America, earn it. get a job, and pay your premiums like we do. Part of living free is that by your actions you can fail, it's not my job to subsidize you.

My personal opinion: I lived in the UK where they had free healthcare, dated a nurse who worked in one of the hospitals and refused to see ANY doctor there. would you eat at a resturant where the cooks refused to eat? It's a nice idea but it punishes responsible americans for having income through taxes and the quality WILL NEVER be as high as it needs to be.

 

[Celerity]

If you like Socialist healthcare, I invite you to go to the ER in Canada and see how quickly you change your mind.