Paul Ryan trying to save the economy

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And this is what the problem is, this is not the federal governments job! When someone puts their fat grubby hand into my paycheck and snatches a percentage out before I even see it then want to "help" people with my stolen money, it called fuck you get your own goddamn money if I want to "help" people Ill do it as I see goddamn fit with my goddamn money. Fucking socialistists, fighting to prove Darwin wrong since 1869!
 
I have no problem with helping people who really need it. It does suck that people faking it ruins it for people who do need it.
 
I have no problem with helping people who really need it. It does suck that people faking it ruins it for people who do need it.

Same with me. I have no issues with people who DESERVE it, just too many people abuse it.
 
And this is what the problem is, this is not the federal governments job! When someone puts their fat grubby hand into my paycheck and snatches a percentage out before I even see it then want to "help" people with my stolen money, it called fuck you get your own goddamn money if I want to "help" people Ill do it as I see goddamn fit with my goddamn money. Fucking socialistists, fighting to prove Darwin wrong since 1869!



You don't have a grasp of anything outside of yourself. Its deontological vs. utilitarian at its finest.


















c'mon buddy. Look those words up. I know you want.
 
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i think he was specifically referring to the people who take(steal) assistance that they don't really need

c'mon buddy. Look those words up. I know you want.
dick move by the way
i know nooch and he's a good person, no reason to try and talk down to other members for differing opinions
i think we can all agree that some people need help, and others are just there to take the free money
and the ones taking free money for no reason are the greedy ones ruining it for the people who really need help
 
and that's a whole other ball game.

yet, i'm pretty sure the last 25 people who bagged my groceries had a mental illnesses like Down syndrome, and they have jobs. just sayin'

Well I was talking about people who think theres no way they can succeed, no way theyll ever get outta the ghetto, etc.
 
With an attitude that you'll never get out of the ghetto, you won't.
Most of us are products of free public education. If they tried and wanted to, they could make something of themselves. But slinging dope pays TODAY and its pretty easy so its easy to get caught up in the shit without guidance. and we all know parental guidance is missing from these areas big time.

To the other debate, disability is an entirely different ball game from welfare in my eyes. If you can't walk or breathe, you're probably not able-bodied, and thus do not apply to the point i was trying to make.
 
To the other debate, disability is an entirely different ball game from welfare in my eyes. If you can't walk or breathe, you're probably not able-bodied, and thus do not apply to the point i was trying to make.


And nobody in their right mind would ever argue that these people should be left to suffer and die.
 
Not necessarily, comparisons to Argentina are misplaced. America's consumer still makes the world go round. We may be printing money to buy oil and running up debt levels which give us a temporary unfair advantage in regards to other countries but the fact remains: If America goes belly up much of the world loses its food producer and China (world's second largest economy) loses its main buyer of products.

If we were another country it would be too late, but we are in a very favorable position and we can still leverage that. Perpetuation of the current ridiculous monetary philosophy is impossible, but we need not find ourselves in Glen Beck's worst fears if we act both strongly and soon.

Think of it as the financial equivalent of mutually assured destruction.

But what do I know, I'm just the Poly Sci honor's student in the room.

However, any solution assumes a willingness of Americans to accept there is a problem large enough to merit a drastic reduction in spending, one that includes defense cuts which even the biggest budget hawks won't admit we need. In-so-much as that is true you are probably absolutely right: Not only is it to late, but there was never a time when this (pending) crisis could have been avoided.

[sarcasm]AMERICA, FUCK YEAH!!!![/sarcasm]

Bam!

everybody in the U.S. should be doing something. If you have 2 arms and 2 legs and you can read, you should be put to work.

I agree with this in sentiment but work that doesn't produce something of monetary value can be costly...more costly than letting the same people collect their social benefits.

If what you say actually happened, and everyone that could do some kind of work was working...well, you can't just give everyone a $2 broom and make them sweep the grass. You will need to purchase resources and equipment to support and execute this labor.

I think Friedman wrote at length on this idea. Politicians like to talk about "job creation" but making jobs for the sake of jobs is often counter-productive and damaging to marginal revenues.

It's a nice idea though.

As much as I hate free handouts. I will let you in on a secret. When ran effectively these programs help people.







A lot of you don't get it I will explain.


As the son of a woman that is on welfare/medicaid/medicare/foodstamps/diability. I will tell you when the budget decreases the users don't. The amount given to users do.

I will explain in layman terms.


You have 200 dollars. You have 50 people that receive $4dollars. Budget decreases to $150 dollars. Each person gets 3 dollars. That's a 25% decrease in amount in each hand regardless of the person. Still have 50 people. On top of that, prices went up. Groceries. Treatments for disabilities. Gas. Heat. Rent. And finally on top of that. The administration the gives out the benefits had to cuts its employees and can't effectively manage dispursement as well as it used to.




The worst part is, without these programs, my mother, two of my uncles, my aunt all would be on the street, or actually dead. My uncles and aunt can't breath on their own. They can't walk. They can't write. They can barely speak without losing their breath. THey survive using some form of welfare or another. My mother can breath but uses a machine for when she sits down and can't stand long. She doesn't have the ability to blow dry her hair, or put on makeup without getting winded. How does she get to her treaments that cost $38,000 a week, 26x a year? On a government sponsored vocational vehicle. How does it get paid? Medicaid. What bipap machine does she have? A government purchased one. WIthout she'd be dead. Same wit my uncles who also have the same disease. My aunt has had near terminal cancer and would have died without these services.



What do you do with these people if you cut the program? Have any of you been to a project? 75% of the people there need the money/support in a bad way. I've built two huge 500 unit apartments for section 8 next to existing, and the people that lived there, didn't have a choice, and didn't want it and would do something about it if they could. Unfortunately, seeing the amount of wheelchairs and mentally handicapped would astound you. Do you cast these people as lepurs?




Everyone in this thread should watch the documentary 1%.

Well said. I appreciate your vantage point on the issue.

And nobody in their right mind would ever argue that these people should be left to suffer and die.

A lot of people would. The hardcore Natural Selectionists would. Rahm Emanuel would. Although maybe they aren't in their right minds....
 
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