1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

"PMR" Engine Build HELP

Discussion in 'Engine Building' started by HatchSpeeD, Mar 29, 2006.

  1. HatchSpeeD

    HatchSpeeD ...Hi...

    Messages:
    1,241
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Location:
    Beantown
    Need some help to get my build started & my car on the road asap. Got a pretty good deal on a GSR block, B16 head, Type R pistons (USDM) with GSR rods & bearings all assembled & still in plastic. I might be getting my hands on some type r cams as well.
    My questions are:

    1) Are the type R rods any more stout than the gsr or are there any differences?
    2) What compression ratio will I yield with that setup. Should be the same as the usdm type r so correct me if i'm wrong but i'm looking at 10.6:1?
    3) I was thinking of getting my p28 chipped to run a type r map, will the stock b16 valvetrain be able to handle the revs of a ITR map/cams?
    4) Anyone know of reputable machine shops in the new england area that specialize in hondas?

    I might P&P the head if the price isn't too bad but its hard to find good machine shops around Boston. Thinking of going to trick engineering up in NH. Right now i'm just trying to get my car on the road & trying to work with what I got but maybe next summer when I get a reliable daily driver i'll build for boost. For now, I think i'll be sastified with all motor PMR.
     
  2. GSRCRXsi

    GSRCRXsi Super Moderator Moderator VIP

    Messages:
    9,623
    Likes Received:
    345
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Location:
    MD
    1. type R rods are identical to gsr rods. only difference ive found is that type r rods have an "R" cast into them

    2. compression will be the same as a usdm type r, 10.8:1
     
  3. HatchSpeeD

    HatchSpeeD ...Hi...

    Messages:
    1,241
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Location:
    Beantown
    Hmm, the rods do have the R stamped in them but on the end caps, it says p72. Could it be that its R pistons/rods & gsr end caps or do the R end caps for some reason say p72?

    Also according to hmotorsonline & http://www.hondaswap.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=29825 a usdm type r is 10.6:1
    I could be wrong but wanted to make sure...
     
  4. GSRCRXsi

    GSRCRXsi Super Moderator Moderator VIP

    Messages:
    9,623
    Likes Received:
    345
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Location:
    MD
    the R rods have p72 on the endcaps. mine do anyway.

    if you want to know if the end caps are the ones for the rods just look at the number engraved on the side of the rod (half on the cap, half on the rod) if it lines up like its supposed to, then the caps are the ones for the rods.
     
  5. HatchSpeeD

    HatchSpeeD ...Hi...

    Messages:
    1,241
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Location:
    Beantown
    Ok, if thats the case then I'm pretty sure its a full type r piston/rod combo because its still sealed in plastic but I will check that out to make sure. The p72 threw me off & I showed them to a guy who has a similiar setup so I thought he might know & he said its gsr rods but i'll take your word. thx
     
  6. GSRCRXsi

    GSRCRXsi Super Moderator Moderator VIP

    Messages:
    9,623
    Likes Received:
    345
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Location:
    MD
    im curious to know what you mean. is the piston/rod combo sealed? or just the rods?
     
  7. HatchSpeeD

    HatchSpeeD ...Hi...

    Messages:
    1,241
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Location:
    Beantown
    Piston & rod combo fully assembled with rod bearings sealed in plastic. I'll get some pics up tomorrow. Bought it off someone who said he bought them from a performance shop.

    Off to bed & bump for other questions...
     
  8. GSRCRXsi

    GSRCRXsi Super Moderator Moderator VIP

    Messages:
    9,623
    Likes Received:
    345
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Location:
    MD
    oh so not from the dealer... thats what i thought you meant. and the fact that it includes bearings means nothing. unless the it includes the crank too. youll have to match the letters and numbers from the crank and rods to get the right bearing colors. you can take your chances on the bearings that they come with, but be sure to plastiguage them and make sure its in spec. if its not, then be sure to get them in spec with the right bearings :)
     
  9. MikeBergy

    MikeBergy Blah blah blah....

    Messages:
    3,646
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2003
    Location:
    Central Coast, CALI
    :withstupid:

    if you are in spec, then it's all gravy.
     
  10. 97CTR

    97CTR Senior Member

    Messages:
    745
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2003
    Machine work

    Try this guy out. Mike is a really good guy and can do almost anything for you at a very reasonable price. He is over near Springfield, MA.
     
  11. HatchSpeeD

    HatchSpeeD ...Hi...

    Messages:
    1,241
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Location:
    Beantown
    Here are the pics...what a pain in the ass to take pics with the plastic...took me almost an hour fooling around with the options & lighting to be able take a picture & actually see the markings.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    For some reason each rod cap is on backwards. Their not all the way tightened up, but all four numbers match but on backwards. I don't know if it makes a difference but there are:

    2 # "21's"
    1 # "23"
    1 # "24"

    The same guy I mentioned earlier that said he thinks they are gsr rods said they looked to be oem bearing because he could see the color codes. I can't really see jack shit with the lighting in my house & don't want to take them out of the plastic yet in case i decide to sell. I am still learning about the engine building & am waiting on my helms, but i'm still a little unsure about the bearing clearances & such. I've read up on how to clay an engine & understand the purpose but not entirely sure about rod/main bearings. I know the bearings should be within a certain spec but am unsure how & what tool checks this. (micrometer?) Then I hear about running loose or tight depending upon high rpm build or not & again don't understand yet. So maybe someone can explain that or send me a link to something that will. Most likely i'll let an experienced machine shop/engine builder take care of everything but I will still like to learn.
     
  12. vanillakilla

    vanillakilla Senior Member

    Messages:
    364
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2006
    Location:
    Tacoma Washington
    to check rod and main bearing clearances you use plastigauge it is a thin string of plastic you tear a piece off and lay it on the bearing surface and tighten the cap to spec, you then remove the cap and measure how wide the plastic squished with the key they give you and it tells you the clearance. hope that wasn't confusing next time I assemble a motor I'll do a write-up. its really easy just don't ask the people at NAPA the guy there told me to use it like you do a feeler gauge. he told me to feed it through and I should feel a slight drag. if I can't get it through too tight, no drag too loose. [​IMG] [​IMG] :ph34r:
     
  13. 97CTR

    97CTR Senior Member

    Messages:
    745
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2003
  14. HatchSpeeD

    HatchSpeeD ...Hi...

    Messages:
    1,241
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Location:
    Beantown
    Sounds like he was talking about a valve adjustment. Thx i'll check out the link.

    Anyone have an idea about the valvetrain though?
     
  15. GSRCRXsi

    GSRCRXsi Super Moderator Moderator VIP

    Messages:
    9,623
    Likes Received:
    345
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Location:
    MD
    you could use a feeler guage if the gap was flat, but its round. my set of feeler guages goes to .0015". and the .0015 is so flimsy theres no way youd ever get it in there without bending it permanently.

    but yea plastiguage is the way to go.

    and that looks like a whole ITR setup to me. someone must have just packaged it up for resale, cause i know it doesnt come like that from the dealer. but like i said, match up the numbers on the crank with the numbers on your rods. and get the correct bearing colors. if they match the colors you already have then you are lucky :) if not go to the dealer and get the right ones. then plastiguage it out like i said. that engine building write up is the best ive seen, follow its directions.

    oh and be sure to switch the caps back around the right way. it matters. and make sure that the numbers actually line up. that matters too. if you switch them around and its the right numbers but they dont line up exactly then someone switched the endcaps out on you. in which case the only fix would be a resize. not trying to scare you, just putting the information out :)
     
  16. HatchSpeeD

    HatchSpeeD ...Hi...

    Messages:
    1,241
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Location:
    Beantown
    Thx for the info. Any thoughts for the head? Will the stock b16 valvetrain be ok for ITR cams/map?
     
  17. GSRCRXsi

    GSRCRXsi Super Moderator Moderator VIP

    Messages:
    9,623
    Likes Received:
    345
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Location:
    MD
    the cams will be fine, just dont go over stock rev limit.
     
  18. HatchSpeeD

    HatchSpeeD ...Hi...

    Messages:
    1,241
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Location:
    Beantown
    Just making sure you know what I meant...will the stock b16 valvetrain be ok with ITR cams with a p28 chipped to run an ITR map? Will I still be able to safely make power up there with the b16 springs etc...?
     
  19. GSRCRXsi

    GSRCRXsi Super Moderator Moderator VIP

    Messages:
    9,623
    Likes Received:
    345
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Location:
    MD
    thats what i mean, dont go over the b16 rev limit. you can go higher, and it should make power, but you are taking the chance... just saying i wouldnt go higher unless i had upgraded valvetrain
     
  20. HatchSpeeD

    HatchSpeeD ...Hi...

    Messages:
    1,241
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Location:
    Beantown
    Ok, wasn't sure which one you meant...

    What do you suggest, itr valve springs? I'm looking at some right now actually...anyone know if I could use all of the retainers & such from the b16 head & just upgrade the valve springs?
     
Verification:
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page