Political:Muslims: Hate in schools ? Nooo .. silly.
- Thread starter Celerity
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lsvtec
GNU/Linux Evangelist
Actually within Islam I would be considered pretty liberal too...
The translations can vary a lot. There are translations out there that try and justify many very odd things. Make sure that (even if you can't read it) the original Arabic is printed beside the translation. There are translations out there without the original that have additions/deletions/modifications. They vary much like different translations and version of the Bible vary.
The translations can vary a lot. There are translations out there that try and justify many very odd things. Make sure that (even if you can't read it) the original Arabic is printed beside the translation. There are translations out there without the original that have additions/deletions/modifications. They vary much like different translations and version of the Bible vary.
Capt. Orygun
Win the Day
lsvtec
GNU/Linux Evangelist
Celerity offered one person's (a non-Muslim) experience with Islam so I offered a fairly well known Muslim's experience. Especially because he has said that he now thinks the Fatwa against Rushdie was wrong. I have to agree, I am no Qur'anic scholar but I don't think the Fatwa was justifiable using the Qur'an.
Celerity
Well-Known Member
Cat Stevens, world reknowned hippy musician, recently converted to Islam. His name changed to "Yusef Islam" or, in english, "Joe Muslim".
Yusef Ali's work, however, has been regarded as correct and complete. So complete that posthumously he was honored by a complete change of his works. Wikipedia:
Bush obviously has censored him.
Statement retracted: Too mean.
Yusef Ali's work, however, has been regarded as correct and complete. So complete that posthumously he was honored by a complete change of his works. Wikipedia:
Bush obviously has censored him.
Statement retracted: Too mean.
Last edited:
Capt. Orygun
Win the Day
exactly but we don't seem to need a 4 page thread to argue wether or not having this shit in christian private schools is a bad idea
lsvtec
GNU/Linux Evangelist
Yusuf Islam (or Cat Stevens or what ever you want to call him) converted in the 70's, not recently.
Allah in Arabic literally translates to "The One True God". So subbing God for Allah does not change any meaning.
There isn't a "single" school of thought on Fiqh (Islamic Jurisprudence) people debate over what the law is just as we do not have a single line of thinking about our laws today. His stance on Interest and lending is just one of the available. Accepted by some, not by others.
Allah in Arabic literally translates to "The One True God". So subbing God for Allah does not change any meaning.
There isn't a "single" school of thought on Fiqh (Islamic Jurisprudence) people debate over what the law is just as we do not have a single line of thinking about our laws today. His stance on Interest and lending is just one of the available. Accepted by some, not by others.
lsvtec
GNU/Linux Evangelist
Agreed, which is why I said that using one wrong to "justify" another is not a valid argument. My beef is where the docs came from (and why the US is so friendly with such an intolerant regime).
Capt. Orygun
Win the Day
you gotta love the left
Fox News=Tabloid
The words of some hippie=Dogmatic Law
Fox News=Tabloid
The words of some hippie=Dogmatic Law
Capt. Orygun
Win the Day
I watch Hannity and Colmes every night
infact Fox does more in the way of bringing in people who disagree with them then CNN/CBS combined
FAIR AND BALANCED
infact Fox does more in the way of bringing in people who disagree with them then CNN/CBS combined
FAIR AND BALANCED
Celerity
Well-Known Member
Ok, so LS has made a suggestion to read the works of Yusef Ali - and I do encourage that you do. You can start today by googling some stuff . Just enter 'yusef ali' in your search query. Go ahead. Do it. Check out some of the things that come back
I was going to pick out some favorites, but the results speak for themselves. "http://www.religioustolerance.org/" is a great place to begin.
I want you to read this site, through and through, and check out how much this site HATES christianity and George Bush. Yes, George Bush specifically. Then I want you to read all of the Islamic resources out there and see how much they try to convert - I want you to observe the pictures of covered women... No wait.. I want you to gaze upon the pictures of Islam, Freedom and Beauty
Or how about the peaceful holiday of Ashoura ?
I think you're absolutely right. It truly is a religion of peace.
How about those christians in Muslim areas, that are hung or stoned to death ? What about people that convert from Islam, even Moderate islam ?
Ever see what Islam says about gays ? I'm very surprised to see that the very things that everyone hates about (what they think) george bush does, that when these same things are well documented and photographed, We turn a blind eye ? In the hopes of tolerance ? Tolerance of a people who's last idea on the planet is tolerance ?
Are you really that stupid ?
I was going to pick out some favorites, but the results speak for themselves. "http://www.religioustolerance.org/" is a great place to begin.
I want you to read this site, through and through, and check out how much this site HATES christianity and George Bush. Yes, George Bush specifically. Then I want you to read all of the Islamic resources out there and see how much they try to convert - I want you to observe the pictures of covered women... No wait.. I want you to gaze upon the pictures of Islam, Freedom and Beauty
Or how about the peaceful holiday of Ashoura ?
I think you're absolutely right. It truly is a religion of peace.
How about those christians in Muslim areas, that are hung or stoned to death ? What about people that convert from Islam, even Moderate islam ?
Ever see what Islam says about gays ? I'm very surprised to see that the very things that everyone hates about (what they think) george bush does, that when these same things are well documented and photographed, We turn a blind eye ? In the hopes of tolerance ? Tolerance of a people who's last idea on the planet is tolerance ?
Are you really that stupid ?
Celerity
Well-Known Member
Oh, and before you go on about the "Right wing christians" Christianity doesn't recognise Christ, the people that protest military funerals, the Mormons, Jim Jones, David Koresh nor any of the 20 or so member "cults" out there that are crazy snake handlers.
The very WORST and most EXTREME christianity has to offer is Jerry Falwell. And the day I see Jerry on stage about to behead a Pakistani Journalist I'll fall for your little "But they do it too" crap.
The very WORST and most EXTREME christianity has to offer is Jerry Falwell. And the day I see Jerry on stage about to behead a Pakistani Journalist I'll fall for your little "But they do it too" crap.
Some of us are arguing about what each religions core documents teach, which are BOTH subject to varied translations, from "kill everyone who doesn't think like you" to "peace for everyone".
Others are arguing about what each of the religions teach through their actions, which are based on their personal interpretation of the Bible/Quran.
"Muslims kill people so muslims are bad"
"Christians kill people, so they're just as bad"
"The Quran teaches peace"
"Jesus was all about peace"
Everyone is being VERY hypocritical to promote their own beliefs as "more righteous" because it ALL comes down to personal interpretation and execution of that interpretation in your daily life, moral, ideals etc.
One could interpret the Bible to look much worse than the quran, and, obviously, vice versa.
"The Quran promotes jihad against all other religions"
"God said to kill everyone in Canaan"
Trying to apply this to modern events is where I have to side with Christianity. Compare all the predominantly Muslim nations with the predominantly Christian Nations. Compare their quality of life for the minorities living there. Compare the way women are treated. Compare the tolerance for alternative religions and lifestyles.
I'm not saying that these Muslim nations are following the Quran the way it was meant to be interpreted, or that America is following the Bible the way it was meant to be interpreted either. Obviously NEITHER of them are. The religions are being judged by the actions of the members. So it becomes an argument of which religion spawns more psychopathic killers/jihadists, Muslim or Christians. IMHO Muslim nations are more jihadic than Christian nations, and they perpetuate the oppression of women and all manner of other moral atrocities. Christian nations aren't "righteous" by any means, but they seem to me to be the lesser of two evils.
Others are arguing about what each of the religions teach through their actions, which are based on their personal interpretation of the Bible/Quran.
"Muslims kill people so muslims are bad"
"Christians kill people, so they're just as bad"
"The Quran teaches peace"
"Jesus was all about peace"
Everyone is being VERY hypocritical to promote their own beliefs as "more righteous" because it ALL comes down to personal interpretation and execution of that interpretation in your daily life, moral, ideals etc.
One could interpret the Bible to look much worse than the quran, and, obviously, vice versa.
"The Quran promotes jihad against all other religions"
"God said to kill everyone in Canaan"
Trying to apply this to modern events is where I have to side with Christianity. Compare all the predominantly Muslim nations with the predominantly Christian Nations. Compare their quality of life for the minorities living there. Compare the way women are treated. Compare the tolerance for alternative religions and lifestyles.
I'm not saying that these Muslim nations are following the Quran the way it was meant to be interpreted, or that America is following the Bible the way it was meant to be interpreted either. Obviously NEITHER of them are. The religions are being judged by the actions of the members. So it becomes an argument of which religion spawns more psychopathic killers/jihadists, Muslim or Christians. IMHO Muslim nations are more jihadic than Christian nations, and they perpetuate the oppression of women and all manner of other moral atrocities. Christian nations aren't "righteous" by any means, but they seem to me to be the lesser of two evils.
Celerity
Well-Known Member
AND a quick word about Christian Flagellation (Think DaVinci code), it's a 14th century extremist practice that either died off, or is practiced in solitude - And never is a child cut or flagellated in this practice.
Yes, The Inquistions were shitty, and Christians were at the head of that. Back then, there WAS a war going on, a war that has been over - unless you're a Muslim. You wanna talk about beating up Muslims ? Look up the origin of the word "Pagan", and see who got beat up during the inquisitions.
Yes, The Inquistions were shitty, and Christians were at the head of that. Back then, there WAS a war going on, a war that has been over - unless you're a Muslim. You wanna talk about beating up Muslims ? Look up the origin of the word "Pagan", and see who got beat up during the inquisitions.
smooth_criminal
Senior Member
OK so let me get this straight:
Christians follow Jesus Christ to get to God,
Jews follow Abraham to get to the resurrection of Jesus
Muslims follow Muhammad to get the Allah
Is this all correct?
Christians follow Jesus Christ to get to God,
Jews follow Abraham to get to the resurrection of Jesus
Muslims follow Muhammad to get the Allah
Is this all correct?
Not really, Jews don't recognize Christ as the Messiah, they are still waiting for the redeemer to arrive.
Celerity
Well-Known Member
No. Well, Not exactly. .. Wait. What the hell ?
Christians follow the teachings of Christ to one day get to Heaven, or in this life to live under the laws of God (New testament versus old testament) to get to Heaven.
Jews Follow Abraham, and while they do believe Jesus existed, they do not believe that he was the son of any god. Also, they recognise the afterlife as guaranteed just for being here. (No hell)
Muslims follow the teaches of Mohammed, who is the only person allowed to speak to Allah, and who Allah's will is communicated only through Mohammed. There is accurate historical evidence of Mohammed. They believe that the afterlife holds many results for your life on earth (Reuniting with family, 72 virgins, whathaveyou)
That's a VERY nutshell statement of the 3.
lsvtec
GNU/Linux Evangelist
You picked a site that cherry picks a few of the extreme views.
The Qur'an does not mandate the Burka, no matter how many times you say so, it does not make it true. Women are required to "Cover their beauty", the definition of beauty is up to the individual woman. Surah 24 verse 31
Ashura is like that for some, but for the majority it is a time for remembering the sacrifice of a group of people for a belief. Self mutilation is as comdemned in the Qur'an as in the Bible, it is not permitted. So how can you associate these things that are cultural additions to the faith with the faith itself?
Did I not show you a verse above about the Christians, Jews, and Sabian??? Did you not read it? Those that suppress Christians are doing so out of a personal belief, not one carried in Islam.
This is my basic problem with you and Islam. You take someone's word (this person that is not a Muslim) that what they saw or were shown had to be part of the faith. If these things are required by Islam I want you to show me the verses in the Qur'an that mandate them. You won't because you can't.
The Qur'an does not mandate the Burka, no matter how many times you say so, it does not make it true. Women are required to "Cover their beauty", the definition of beauty is up to the individual woman. Surah 24 verse 31
According to the second Surah verse 256:
therefore no one can force anyone else to follow the faith, it has to be done by choice.
Ashura is like that for some, but for the majority it is a time for remembering the sacrifice of a group of people for a belief. Self mutilation is as comdemned in the Qur'an as in the Bible, it is not permitted. So how can you associate these things that are cultural additions to the faith with the faith itself?
Did I not show you a verse above about the Christians, Jews, and Sabian??? Did you not read it? Those that suppress Christians are doing so out of a personal belief, not one carried in Islam.
This is my basic problem with you and Islam. You take someone's word (this person that is not a Muslim) that what they saw or were shown had to be part of the faith. If these things are required by Islam I want you to show me the verses in the Qur'an that mandate them. You won't because you can't.