poll shows americans hate the draft...

[Outlandish_Bandit]

I saw this the title to this thread, and figured I'd jump in and lay my 2cents on the table. Lo and behold, I find a heated debate on the second page. No offense to anyone here, but I think that a few of the individuals arguing here have absolutely no clue whats going on. Maybe too many viewings of Fahrenheit 9/11? Anyways, not to jump on John's bandwagon, and toot the Army's horn, but we did, the both of us, see what living conditions are like over there.

Both in Iraq and Kosovo. Let me tell you, its a far cry from anywhere in the states. You hear people talking about how shitty it is in this area, how much garbage there is in so and sos yard, blah blah blah. Those people frankly, can fuck themselves. Go to a real 3rd world country. Witness firsthand the poverty and desperation of the people as they bust their asses trying to get enough food to feed their children. Smell the stench of raw sewage as it floats by on the side of the road, because oh my god! there aren't any sewers to speak of. Hear the cries of the children as they ask for water, or food as you drive by. See the flies buzzing around their emaciated bodies, their clothes hanging off of them. THEN come fucking talk to me about living conditions.

Yeah, our living conditions over there weren't as horrible as they could be, but we're America, the most powerful nation on earth, and if our troops want a coke so their morale isn't in the toilet, who the hell really cares? When's the last time you slept in a 15'x20' bay with 10 other guys? Whens the last time you had to search for a shower trailer that still had water? Whens the last time you had to eat the same shitty food for 6 months, day in and day out? Do you think you would say how great you had it then? Or would you compare yourself to what you saw outside the wire, and realize that jesus, this is pretty freakin nice compared to what its really like.

I think anyone who puts down the army, or any other civil service job is just ignorant. I'm sorry, I do. Think of all the little seemingly insignificant things that other people who don't get paid as much do for you. Think about the risk and danger that some people willingly put themselves in just to make someone safe. COuld they have picked a different job? Sure, but maybe they felt like the best thing they could do for their fellow man was to help them out. THink about it. If everyone thought like you, and just didn't give a fuck, what would the world be like then? House on fire? That sucks for you, lemme hose mine down. Oh no, you got shot? I bet that hurts huh? Good thing you didnt mess up my clothes with your brain matter. Dictator slaughtering innocent people? Sheesh, glad I'm not over there. Doesn't that seem kinda stupid?

Maybe you should start thinking a little more about things before you make comments like you have been. GOd gave us brains for a reason, try using it.



Specialist Timothy R. Krenzer, US Army
10th Mountain Division, 2nd Brigade, 2nd Special Troops Battalion



Eat my fucking shorts

 

[totalburnout]

Originally posted by E-dogg+Jun 26 2005, 03:17 PM-->

When you start an argument there is no need to immediately insult the person you are debating. Your sarcasm in calling me genius was noted. Usually when someone resorts to insults it signals that they have a weak argument, usually.

Originally posted by E-dogg@Jun 26 2005, 05:18 PM
Amazing that you had all of these famous teachers and you failed to learn how to spell renown.

The idea was sound.

E-dogg
The French did help, however they weren't as big an aid, in my opinion, as most people make them out to be.

You understand why most people make them to be such a big aid? ...because *most* people are correct when they say that. Without supplies we had nothing. I don't care about training, I'm talking about French ships bringing supplies to a group of yankees that had exhausted absolutely all of their supplies. At the time, half the "soldiers" on the American side did not have rifles and if they did, they didn't have ammunition or gun powder. Kapeesh?


You claim to be a history major and you cannot comprehend the most simplistic of idea. Without the French we had no supplies. Without supplies, it doesn't matter how strong the revolutionists felt and wanted to win the war, we would have been hopeless. Infact until we received those first supplies from the French the war was looking very bleak.

This thread obviously isn't about the American Revolution but you taking for granted that the big great America only came to be because another nation helped a group of rag tag yankees in need.

 

[totalburnout]

Originally posted by E-dogg@Jun 26 2005, 05:18 PM
I would like to see some figures of the mortality rate of firefighters compared to construction workers or something like that. I'm sure the firefighters live much longer than most "normal non-heroic" jobs. The last fire in my town I can recall occurred right behind the fire station, and it fucking burnt down.

Quit when you're behind.


Of course they're not "super" heros they can't prevent every fire or even save everyone, but to those who give their lives selflessly, those are the modern "heros".

Deliver your egg rolls and with that income re-enroll in college.


///end rant.

////end discussion from me.

 

[Battle Pope]

Originally posted by New2TheCarScene@Jun 26 2005, 05:20 PM
////end discussion from me.

[post=516714]Quoted post[/post]​

Finally!

 

[mozzandherb]

Everyone should move to Canada. Montreal was rated the best city to live in the world, bumped Sydney, Australia from 1st. Ottawa was considred the cheapest city to live in in N.A. According to the U.N Canada is among the top 3 countries in the world for the past several years. Plus our beer is better.

 

[E-dogg]

Originally posted by New2TheCarScene+Jun 26 2005, 07:20 PM-->

E-dogg

@Jun 26 2005, 05:18 PM
I would like to see some figures of the mortality rate of firefighters compared to construction workers or something like that.  I'm sure the firefighters live much longer than most "normal non-heroic" jobs.  The last fire in my town I can recall occurred right behind the fire station, and it fucking burnt down.

Quit when you're behind.


Of course they're not "super" heros they can't prevent every fire or even save everyone, but to those who give their lives selflessly, those are the modern "heros".

[post=516714]Quoted post[/post]​

Wow low and behold I find some figures to back up my argument about the 10 most dangerous jobs. It seems that delivery drivers are #5 on the list. I guess we found our heroes huh?? Heres the link, knowledge is your friend... http://money.cnn.com/2003/10/13/pf/dangerousjobs/

Also, you can keep dissing on my job all ya want and keep implying that I'm stupid. It doesn't bother me. However when you're trying to insult someones intelligence at least do a spell check. heros<heroes.

I also saw that we had another bandwagoner quick to jump on the "Your unamerican and are saying that soldiers don't have it hard etc etc." So Outlandish how about you read back through my posts and quote me where I said that soldiers deserve much respect etc etc.. ?? Like Blanco said, if people think you are trying to challenge things to do with the war or you don't want to serve then you're a piece of shit. Whatever.

I can keep restating my point but it seems it is hard for some to comprehend. They would prefer to put words into my mouth and attempt to twist the argument. So why bother??

 

[Airjockie]

like I said before....Draft their stupid, Lazy , Fat, calus-fearing, couch-potato ass's....

Why should the few that volunteered for this shit be made to cover every other "Free and Bitching" peoples ass's???

Do the DRAFT...cuz that's the only way to get most of the eligable pompus assed kids into the real world.


I'm sure the guys that has been there can agree...if they had more people, their job would have been easier...unless they were a cook....but with the real fighting people slowly dwindeling down due to their tour being up, lack of fresh bodies, having to do consecutive tours...I bet they would really appreiciate the break from that shit...

Since no-one is volunteering anymore...force them too....DRAFT their butts, and make them into real men and women.


SrAirman Clayton A. Pace.
F-15 C/D Crew Chief
USAF, PACAF, 18th Wing, 12th Fighter Squadron, Okinawa, Japan
06/09/90-03/25/93


And if you've Served...

THANK YOU!!!

 

[Sabz5150]

Originally posted by Airjockie@Jun 26 2005, 07:49 PM
like I said before....Draft their stupid, Lazy , Fat, calus-fearing, couch-potato ass's....

Why should the few that volunteered for this shit be made to cover every other "Free and Bitching" peoples ass's???

For lack of better words: Because it's your job. You chose to fight, so don't bitch because everyone else isn't lining up.

Do the DRAFT...cuz that's the only way to get most of the eligable pompus assed kids into the real world.


I'm sure the guys that has been there can agree...if they had more people, their job would have been easier...unless they were a cook....but with the real fighting people slowly dwindeling down due to their tour being up, lack of fresh bodies, having to do consecutive tours...I bet they would really appreiciate the break from that shit...

Since no-one is volunteering anymore...force them too....DRAFT their butts, and make them into real men and women.

The real world consists of wars started because of personal vendettas by people who didn't have the balls to fight when they were called upon? Speaking of pompous assed kids. While this ass was getting his daddy to pull strings, my old man was catching bullets. No suprise that the country whose calling he ignored is now ignoring his call.

Personally, I cannot join. I have hearing problems. I'd get booted right after the physical. However after 9/11 I was willing to offer my services should they become needed. Not anymore... not since the Iraq fiasco. I will not fight a war that has nothing to do with the protection of this country. I'm not giving my life so some rich prick can impress his daddy.

SrAirman Clayton A. Pace.
F-15 C/D Crew Chief
USAF, PACAF, 18th Wing, 12th Fighter Squadron, Okinawa, Japan
06/09/90-03/25/93


And if you've Served...

THANK YOU!!!

[post=516729]Quoted post[/post]​

My old man served the majority of Nam. He told me not to join... said he's killed enough for the both of us. He also does not support this war. I respect his wishes, not because of the stories he's told me, but because of the ones he hasn't.

 

[Sabz5150]

Originally posted by New2TheCarScene@Jun 26 2005, 01:54 PM
Hey genius, do you understand that the French were the reason why we won the American Revolution? It was the French's supplies and support that allowed us to win.

And the high and mighty "patriots" (read: NATIONALISTS) of this country who are quick to put down France because they didn't support the Iraq war would do good to remember that little fact.

 

[totalburnout]

Originally posted by Sabz5150@Jun 26 2005, 09:59 PM

And the high and mighty "patriots" (read: NATIONALISTS) of this country who are quick to put down France because they didn't support the Iraq war would do good to remember that little fact.

[post=516760]Quoted post[/post]​

Since you seem to be sane here, I'll chime in.

Although I don't respect the French for their current foreign affairs policy, I recognize that they are one of the primary reasons why I'm able to sit in my home, here in cozy old good U-S of A and write this message.

 

[mozzandherb]

Originally posted by Sabz5150+Jun 26 2005, 09:59 PM-->

New2TheCarScene

@Jun 26 2005, 01:54 PM
Hey genius, do you understand that the French were the reason why we won the American Revolution?  It was the French's supplies and support that allowed us to win. 

And the high and mighty "patriots" (read: NATIONALISTS) of this country who are quick to put down France because they didn't support the Iraq war would do good to remember that little fact.

[post=516760]Quoted post[/post]​

Yeah it was the French and don't forget the Indians, the Indians were the ones who helped the French in the beginning, so if it were not for the Indians letting the French and English explore and evangelize their land and people the world would be a different place. But of course we ran the Indians out of THEY'RE territory and proceded to eventually take over.

 

[syndular]

Originally posted by New2TheCarScene+Jun 26 2005, 10:51 PM-->

Sabz5150

@Jun 26 2005, 09:59 PM

And the high and mighty "patriots" (read: NATIONALISTS) of this country who are quick to put down France because they didn't support the Iraq war would do good to remember that little fact.

[post=516760]Quoted post[/post]​

Since you seem to be sane here, I'll chime in.

Although I don't respect the French for their current foreign affairs policy, I recognize that they are one of the primary reasons why I'm able to sit in my home, here in cozy old good U-S of A and write this message.

[post=516773]Quoted post[/post]​

If I may "chime in " don't forget about the Cavemen that overcame monsters, weather and all other sorts of conditions just so that we could live here in the GOOD Ol U...S...of...A !!!

But really, New2thecarscene and sabz5150. Every time you guys post, do you REALLY have to make 2 posts back to back. Can you not just post all that one ONE SINGLE post ? Or, if need be, heaven forbid, go back and edit the first post to include the new information? I mean really, do you honestly need that high of a post count to show up under your name? I dunno, just wondering.

Other then that, all you guys so far do not have solid comebacks. I mean, if you are going to argue about this mess of things, first stay on topic. Who cares about the american revolution. I mean really this was about the draft, and then you go and get off topic. Get back online.

I myself. I would join the Army, Marines but not the Air Force or Navy. But they will not let me join !!!! Something about how I used to sell drugs and steal from people. Note : I do NOT do those things any longer. But just because I have multiple marks on my record, I guess they don't want me in their forces. Bastards. I would love to shoot people ! For freedom. Plus the very second I join the Army, I am a hero. I mean come on man. Who doesn't want to be a freakin hero??? I do, sign me up now !

 

[SolReaver]

Originally posted by Airjockie+Jun 26 2005, 07:49 PM-->

like I said before....Draft their stupid, Lazy , Fat, calus-fearing, couch-potato ass's....

Why should the few that volunteered for this shit be made to cover every other "Free and Bitching" peoples ass's???


Do the DRAFT...cuz that's the only way to get most of the eligable pompus assed kids into the real world.




Since no-one is volunteering anymore...force them too....DRAFT their butts, and make them into real men and women.

This is the most faulty logic I have heard in my life. If you don't want to join the military to fight for your country and everyone in it, DON"T SIGN UP

You make it sound like the only to become a real man is to volunteer. I'm appalled at that statement, simply because i've read some of your other posts and you seem like a smart guy. Your extreme bias is skewing a lot of things.

Originally posted by 92b16vx@Jun 25 2005, 11:17 AM

Originally posted by SolReaver@Jun 25 2005, 08:00 AM
Your friends signed up for the military on their on choice. Don't act like taxpayers like myself aren't doing their part. I pay your military buddies' paychecks. That pretty signing bonus and perks they get, are thanks to people like me. Just cause they are there toting their guns doesn't mean im not doing my part.

[post=516313]Quoted post[/post]​

And don't bullshit yourself with that "I pay your salary" shit, probably about .00000001 cents of you taxes goes to our salaries. And those nice "perks" would that be waking up at 0500 everyday? or working till 1700 after that? I know, maybe they're being away from your family and friends for year(s) at a time? No, oh you must mean the $1000-??? bonus that gets taxed to pay our salaries? Living conditions, that must be it, no wait, mostly we live in highly controlled enviroments with a bunch of other guys,

[post=516381]Quoted post[/post]​

If you don't like what you do, quit. It's that simple. If you are gonna do it, yet still bitch about how terrible is, then you should be smart enough to see that there is something wrong there.

It doesn't matter whether I pay .001 cents or 10 million dollars to you out of my taxes, the fact is that me and millions of people like me are paying for your services. Just like anything else. Now if you are gonna call me unpatriotic or a pussy for not wanting to enlist, then kindly fuck off. I appreciate the fact that I live in a free country, but i'm not gonna go sucking anyone's dicks for it just yet. Which leads to my other statement;

New2TheCarScene@Jun 25 2005, 10:48 AM

Now if it was a situation where we were being invaded and the only way I would remain free was to fight, then point me in the direction of the nearest recruiting office.

Heroic...

[post=516366]Quoted post[/post]​

You're obviously missing my point. I'm not trying to be heroic. Im not trying to win a medal for saving millions of lives. However I will fight for my freedom if I have to. But right now, I choose to work in my country, so I can pay for these kinds of conveniences.

 

[SolReaver]

Originally posted by syndular@Jun 27 2005, 12:39 AM

I used to sell drugs and steal from people. Note : I do NOT do those things any longer. But just because I have multiple marks on my record, I guess they don't want me in their forces. Bastards.

I would love to shoot people ! For freedom. Plus the very second I join the Army, I am a hero.

[post=516798]Quoted post[/post]​

You want to shoot people? Start with yourself. Seriously.

I see no world peace cause of zealous armed forces

I eat no breath-mints cause their from de-hoofed horses

Now I cant believe; what an absolute failure

The presidents laughing cause we voted for nader



Thats no way to go, franco un-american

No way to go, franco un-american

No way to go, franco un-american

Where can we go, franco un-american



I want to move north and be a canadian

Or hang down low with the nice australians

I dont want to be another i-dont-care-ican

What are we gonna do franco, franco un-american

 

[syndular]

Originally posted by SolReaver+Jun 27 2005, 01:10 AM-->

syndular

@Jun 27 2005, 12:39 AM

I used to sell drugs and steal from people. Note : I do NOT do those things any longer. But just because I have multiple marks on my record, I guess they don't want me in their forces. Bastards.

I would love to shoot people ! For freedom. Plus the very second I join the Army, I am a hero.

[post=516798]Quoted post[/post]​

You want to shoot people? Start with yourself. Seriously.

[post=516806]Quoted post[/post]​

I don't expect you to get my humor, most people do not, and if you thought my post was total serious, I'm sorry, not for me, for you. You seem like a smart guy and of all the ones on here, I wouldn't want to diss on you or Edogg. Two of the only ones really making sense. But I have to say, I am touched that you gave me a gun. Honestly, I think if I had one, I would of shot someone by now... well, not now, but before, when I was soo ill-tempered and used to have run-in's with the law and other unlawfull poeple. But that is neither here nor there, so please, don't hand me a gun, because someone WILL end up dead.

Though I was serious about being a bad person. But, if you are one of "those" guys that thinks "oh, he did something bad in his past, I will hate him forever more" then so be it. I will love you either way. Peace !

Oh, and love yet another double post back to back. Is that all people do on this forum is double/ tripple post. Does nobody here ( besides Edogg ) not now how to go back and edit a post if you think you forgot something? Count Count Count me up ! I have 2 now !



***Sarcasm is a form of irony that is widely used in English especially when people are being humorous. Generally the sarcastic speaker or writer means the exact opposite of the word they use, often intending to be rude or to laugh at the person the words are addressed to.

From : http://www.usingenglish.com/glossary/sarcasm.html

So next time people say, all you have to do to be a hero ( these days ) is join the army and go fight for your country. Think again, That doesn't define a hero. "Seriously" Nor being a fire figher, or wait, yeah think I saw that spot on the application for being a Fire fighter. It had a spot that said : Are you a natural Hero Yes or No ( circle one )

 

[Airjockie]

:roll: Uhmmm...OK...

News Flash!!!!....

War Sucks, but it helps get the population under control...well it did eons ago..

Whats the point of this and every war, and whats the point of the people who fight in them, whats to gain, and whats there to lose????

many questions to be answered and everyone will have their own point of veiws...

for the people here that do know me personally...knows that:

A. I'm about as violent as butterfly.
B. I very rarely stress my point of veiw....unless I post drunk. (my first post on this thread...I had a few)
C. I would give up my citizenship in a heart beat to get a Japanese citizenship...WHY???? Couse over there...LIFE IS BETTER!

well...I too have lived in other countries, and seen a shit load of other countries, and I even wanted to live and build shit in Thailand...

a few things to concider....

Past and present overveiw....

Past...We help other allies kicking the shit out of Germany...
Present...Germany now has a booming economy, more freedom than ever before and a great export with the hot German cars that we drool over.

Past...We creamed Japan....
Present...Japan now has a super booming economy, not as good as it was 10 years ago, but it's making a comeback, and will thrive for many years to come. They are free to do what they want. They live very peacefully...and they are some really super awesome people to be around...hell...even my wife is Japanese...plus their technology is super strong, and their cars will still kick ass for many years.

Past...We got Saddam...
Present...well...it will be tough to make the country accept the US, and the insurgents still has a decent foothold..but.... THE POSSIBILITY that they will be free, and then the other possibility that they can get back on their feet, and strive to be a decent country...and who know...maybe in 50 years they can be producing the flying car that gets 500 MPG, that we will drool over.


Is the War worth it??? :unsure:










Plus my previouse posts were made to strike up the debate, piss some people off, and keep it on topic. But I dispise lazy fucks that take shit for granted, and are to damn selfcentered to give up something for a few years of their life to help the world around them... But I also do not like this war, but it will not stop until something big happens. If it takes a draft to get peace to happen...then it will happen... tough shit.

 

[xj0hnx]

Originally posted by SolReaver+Jun 27 2005, 07:06 AM-->

Originally posted by 92b16vx+Jun 25 2005, 11:17 AM-->

SolReaver

@Jun 25 2005, 08:00 AM
Your friends signed up for the military on their on choice. Don't act like taxpayers like myself aren't doing their part. I pay your military buddies' paychecks. That pretty signing bonus and perks they get, are thanks to people like me. Just cause they are there toting their guns doesn't mean im not doing my part.

[post=516313]Quoted post[/post]​

And don't bullshit yourself with that "I pay your salary" shit, probably about .00000001 cents of you taxes goes to our salaries. And those nice "perks" would that be waking up at 0500 everyday? or working till 1700 after that? I know, maybe they're being away from your family and friends for year(s) at a time? No, oh you must mean the $1000-??? bonus that gets taxed to pay our salaries? Living conditions, that must be it, no wait, mostly we live in highly controlled enviroments with a bunch of other guys,

[post=516381]Quoted post[/post]​

If you don't like what you do, quit. It's that simple. If you are gonna do it, yet still bitch about how terrible is, then you should be smart enough to see that there is something wrong there.

It doesn't matter whether I pay .001 cents or 10 million dollars to you out of my taxes, the fact is that me and millions of people like me are paying for your services. Just like anything else. Now if you are gonna call me unpatriotic or a pussy for not wanting to enlist, then kindly fuck off.

[post=516805]Quoted post[/post]​

First off I never said I don't like my job learn to read. Those things I listed are in contrast to your blithering idiot of a statement about "just toting guns"
me
I'll never call someone a pinko for not wanting to join smile.gif I will tell someone they are full of shit when they get all high and mighty and try the "I pay your salary" routine though

So if you would kindly fuck off.

 

[xj0hnx]

Anyway, if someone has something meaningful to say about the draft, and can do it in a civilized manor without name calling, or has a lifechanging reveletion about why Americans love/hate the draft PM me, till then....

Das ist kaput.