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Port-N-Polish question

Discussion in 'Engine Building' started by 93civicracer, May 19, 2008.

  1. 93civicracer

    93civicracer Oh, I do a little here and there.

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    I've removed the head from the D15B Vtec to replace the gasket, so I'm taking it into a shop to check for warpage and get a bolt extracted from it.

    But I figured while I'm there why not ask how much for a port n polish job?

    So what would the average P-N-P cost?

    And do you just walk in there and ask for a port n polish? Or are you supposed to tell them how much you want the ports widened?

    Also, what kind of gains could be expected? I'm only expecting maybe 5 hp, maybe 10-15 with a Blox intake manifold?

    Thanks alot for any responses.
     
  2. 93civicracer

    93civicracer Oh, I do a little here and there.

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    I have another question about my whole situation here...

    The whole reason I suspected a blown head gasket was because my coolant turned dark nearly black right...or brownish something like that so I think oil may be getting mixed. But when I pulled the head the gasket was fine. It's completely intact looks just as good as my new one. Also the oil level on the dipstick was fine.

    But then why has my coolant been getting darker and darker and the level in the reservoir rising? The water jackets were full of bright green coolant but with brown shit floating at the top while my reservoir was full of black coolant. What the hell could be the problem?

    What it comes down to is that the coolant's too dark, and for some reason under acceleration the engine just bogs down sometimes whenever it feels like it and slows down in mostly high gear but never in first, and most often around 40-60 mph. Under full throttle this never happens.
     
  3. 93civicracer

    93civicracer Oh, I do a little here and there.

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    Will do as soon as I get the head to the machine shop to get the bolt extracted and a set of valve cover bolts from Honda to put it all back together.

    What could that mean if there's combustion gases in the coolant? I've already drained out all the old shit.
     
  4. Turbo&Auto

    Turbo&Auto Nick Go FAST!!

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    Deck the head and do a basic PNP. Raises compression slightly and increase flow. Both shouldnt set you back a whole lot.
     
  5. 93civicracer

    93civicracer Oh, I do a little here and there.

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    Well I brought the head in today and had a good convo with the man at work, it's pretty much one man operating in a small garage full of machines in the industrial area of town, but I did my homework, asked around, and heard nothing but praise about his work.

    He checked for warpage right in front of me in like 5 minutes and he told me it was fine, told me he'd have the bolt extracted by the same time tomorrow.

    I was asking about the problems I was having, about the loss of power around 40-60 mph every now and then and the bogging along with loss of power, and the coolant having the brownish black shit in it (thought it was oil even though it smells more like cumbustion gases) and he said it was most likely combustion gases due to a cooling system problem. Which makes perfect sense because I was having lots of problems with the cooling system before that happened, and he said it could've burnt a piston ring had it gone on longer because of the ecu not knowing how hot the engine was running.

    So, I quit procrastinating and installed the new cooling fan switch sensor on the thermostat housing, and I'm about to replace the 15A fuse and relay for the fan.

    He also recommended that I sand the surfaces of the head and block very lightly with 600 grit sandpaper, something he says they do with all their high performance racing engines.

    So that's where I'm at now, I also stopped by Honda and ordered a new set of d16z6 valve cover bolts so I'll be ready to put this back together when they come in on thursday.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2008
  6. 93civicracer

    93civicracer Oh, I do a little here and there.

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    Yea, he said to sand very lightly with 600 grit paper, only sand hard enough to get any real noticeable scratches out. Supposedly gets decent results and seals way better.

    It's something I wouldn't mind but I sure as hell wouldn't do it myself I'd be scared of getting filings in the combustion chamber or oil passages. Sounds like cheap ass milling/decking to me.
     
  7. 93civicracer

    93civicracer Oh, I do a little here and there.

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    I would, but there's 2 things holding me back.

    1. I don't have the time, I need to have my car running ASAP because paying gas money to get around is killing me much worse than getting my own gas.

    2. I've never worked with engine parts this was the first time I ever took the head off an engine (at least, with the intention of putting it back on and not just tossing it) and I'd rather not take a chance messing up the surfaces and/or getting filings in the wrong places.

    But I'll do it later on for sure, when I have another daily driver and time to get the port n polish done and start getting it ready for boost so I don't try to do it in a rush.
     
  8. 93civicracer

    93civicracer Oh, I do a little here and there.

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    Ok, got the head back and got my parts from Honda I'm ready to put it back together tomorrow BUT I got some questions about those ARP head bolts...

    So I just opened them up today to check them out and compare them to the stock head bolts.

    They're threaded on both ends?

    Just how am I supposed to install these with out the head already on the bolt? It looks like there's a hex key on one end to tighten them but how exactly is it done?

    I think this is how to do it:

    Line up gasket
    Put the bolts into the block and tighten until snug
    set the head down on it since it's all lined up

    Then what? Do I keep tightening a little further into the torque sequence with the allen wrench? What do I do with the washer and the separate bolt heads? The bolts are even shorter than my stock ones.

    Also, the instructions say to use ARP's own provided assembly lube and torque them all to 60 ft. lbs. and not what the manufacturer says.

    Little help here?
     
  9. 93civicracer

    93civicracer Oh, I do a little here and there.

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    They didn't come with any directions other than make sure to use their assembly lube and to torque to 60 lb ft.

    So you're supposed to use just the hex key to torque them into the block to 60 lb ft?

    How far into the block do they go? Do you put them all the way into the block then put the head on and use the separate head and washer to torque into the head at 60 lb ft like the paper said?

    I'm kind of confused it's different than torquing it from the bolt head, but I THINK I get it.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2008
  10. 93civicracer

    93civicracer Oh, I do a little here and there.

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    Thanks a whole lot that made it really easy.

    But I wish I would have read your post earlier...I think I have a problem now.

    I put 8 of them in so far then came in to see what was posted here. I was going to just hand tighten them all into the block, but then I thought well they're going to stop at the end of the threads right, so I used a ratchet with the hex tip to tighten them up real tight. The one on the top left was a REAL pain in the ass to get in, no matter how I tried to get the threads to catch so that's when I pulled the ratchet out and laid the allen key down.

    So basically, there's 8 of them in there now somewhat tight, and the top left one how has a STRIPPED hex key hole on top and isn't in as far as the rest.

    So should I just go ahead and loosen up the ones that I can and hand tighten all 9 of them?

    The one on the top left is sticking out a lot more than the rest, and the hex hole is stripped.
     
  11. 93civicracer

    93civicracer Oh, I do a little here and there.

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    Ok... so I set up all 10 bolts hand tightened (with the exception of the top left corner bolt sticking up more, and pretty tight. Then I got the gasket lined up and grabbed the oil dowels...

    Here's my problem. When I took the head off, I saw 2 oil dowels come out still stuck in the head. The guy at the machine shop said there's supposed to be 4 in total. I looked at the block when I got home after dropping the head off, and there were 4 bolt holes that are machined to fit the oil dowels, and I only had 2 so I figured I lost the other 2, and ordered 2 extras when I went to Honda for the valve cover bolts.

    Now HERE'S the problem. The gasket only fits 2 oil dowels, the block is machined for 4 dowels, and the head is machined for 4 dowels in DIFFERENT bolt holes! I drew a diagram on paint for ya to look at:

    [​IMG]
    This is really strange to me...what could be the reason for this? The gasket only allows for 2 dowels, the guy told me there's supposed to be 4, and the block and head are both machined for 4 but in different locations...Could this be the reason for oil getting in the coolant/combustion chamber in the first place?

    By the way I never mentioned to tell you there's black shit all over the back of my bumper, right above the exhaust..
     
  12. 93civicracer

    93civicracer Oh, I do a little here and there.

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    Okay, I took out the bolt with 2 of those nuts like you said sucks ass they're only flared so I'm going to a friend's place tomorrow to use his table vice to get the nuts back off.

    I've already taken out the rest of the bolts and put them back in only hand tight, they're about even. Now what do I do when I put that one back in later and it doesn't go in as far as the rest when it's hand tightened?
     
  13. 93civicracer

    93civicracer Oh, I do a little here and there.

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    Well I got that bolt out using 2 of the provided nuts and today I grabbed a vice and took them back off, pain in the ass every other way I tried it!

    But anyways, same thing, that damn bolt won't go all the way in it stops like almost 2 inches above the rest. What should I do?

    I set the head down on it anyway for now but does the hole need to be re-tapped?
     
  14. 93civicracer

    93civicracer Oh, I do a little here and there.

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    I put the head on and looked but the head's not raised there, all the bolts stick up like maybe 2 cm except the one in the upper left corner is sticking up about an inch or so more than the rest.
     
  15. 93civicracer

    93civicracer Oh, I do a little here and there.

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    I was about to just give up on the car because a really bad storm with 65+ mph winds came through and a bunch of trash hit my car. Knocked out my taillight, put some dents all over, and I was about to just get rid of it cause it pissed me off.

    But anyway, forgive me for asking, I've researched this over and over but I can't seem to find the size of the threads so I can buy a chasing kit and fix them. Does anyone know what size thread chaser I should buy for D15B Vtec/D16z6 head stud holes?
     
  16. 93civicracer

    93civicracer Oh, I do a little here and there.

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