Question for the toyota guys here

[reckedracing]

ok, my friends dad has a 91 22RE truck that shit the bed, timing chain wore through the cover and it started pissing water into the oil...

result = fucked lower end and knocking...

so after much searching i have found that these motors go for 600-1200, 600 if you;re lucky...

so i found a whole 86 toyota with a 22R motor

interchange calls for 85-95 (thanks hosmer)

the 85 is carb'ed, autozone calls for the same intake manifold gasket
alternator, dist., exhaust, etc all look the same...

can i strip down the 22R and throw it in a fuel injected truck?

 

[Capt. Orygun]

I don't know but I've always said the 22R was the fucking more dependable engine ever!

 

[Celerity]

I'll try to spin down the turbines from our political threads to answer this one - Because I do know the 22R / RE motors intimately.

The 86 Motors should be 22RE, except for California models and some high altitude Canadian models. It is fuel injected for Federal.

The 22R and 22RE motors ARE DIFFERENT. The 22RE is known as the LASRE block, and has different timing paths, dimensions and the usual different head. You can make them work, but it involves hybriding lots of stuff over. the post 89 22RE motor is very different and I've only had the pleasure to have one apart in front of me and that was about 8 years ago.

the Heads will fit the timing chains won't. The oil pump, tensioner and timing cover needs to be brought over. If you need to pull the timing chain cover you're better off taking the entire motor out on the truck because it is a PAIN IN THE ARSE to do. Everything has to come off, and you'll be down to almost a bareblock at the end of the project (oil pan bolts included). If you bring it down to timing cover, you're only a few steps away from removing the pistons and rebuilding it. Total pain.

Ultimately, the 22R won't work in that truck. The knock sensors and exhaust gas rerouting are the least of your problems - The pistons in the 22R are also hemispherical post 1983 and the valves may not clear with the RE head on it.

As far as price, a $600 one is very cheap. $1200 is very cheap. I am selling my built 22R / 20R hybrid for $1800 and that's very cheap. It's just as much money to get a built 22RE into this truck as it is to call up NWOR and get the V8 conversion and a $200 Ford 302.

Lemme know if you need anything - I'm a 17 year 22R veteran.

 

[reckedracing]

i read on a toyota forum that the knock sensor can just be moved to a diffrent boss on the block...

so i can;t just remove intake, remove exhaust, then install new intake and install new exhaust and call it a day huh?




http://www.northwestoffroad.com/parts/motormounts.html

that website blows

parts number and shit, but no f'in prices

anyone know how much the conversion kit will run all said and done?

we've got a 5.0 sitting around...


well, thats rather disappointing...

my friend called 2 local mechanics that both have tried to make this work and ended up having a no-go situation...

so, looks like we're gonna be doing lower end bearings on this toyota...
another project that been kicking my ass since day one...

so if anyone wants a good running 86 toyota with a 22R carb'ed, 4 speed i think, rotted... only 200 bucks near 12401 zip let me know...

 

[Celerity]

Quoted post[/post]]
i read on a toyota forum that the knock sensor can just be moved to a diffrent boss on the block...

The only forum you should subscribe to is the Old Celicas Club mailling list. celicas.org.

so i can;t just remove intake, remove exhaust, then install new intake and install new exhaust and call it a day huh?

Whatever you wanna use for exhaust, be my guess. The 22RE LASER blocks (1986 and later) and lighter and stronger, and also slightly different. The heads flow differently, the LASER block has a little swirler port at the valve, the Rs are straight. The valves on both are non-interference, so no worries - but you get poor results with the FI system blowing into the larger, leaner combustion chamber of the RE head / piston area.

http://www.northwestoffroad.com/parts/motormounts.html

that website blows

parts number and shit, but no f'in prices

anyone know how much the conversion kit will run all said and done?

I suppose by "anyone" you are talking to me. The complete kits, with guaranteed results and minimal if any fabrication is about $2500. That retains the W50 transmission from Toyota and is good to 300 lbs ft torque all day.

we've got a 5.0 sitting around...

This is what I want to hear. The ford motor moves the distributor forward to negate the need of bashing the firewall.

so, looks like we're gonna be doing lower end bearings on this toyota...
another project that been kicking my ass since day one...

so if anyone wants a good running 86 toyota with a 22R carb'ed, 4 speed i think, rotted... only 200 bucks near 12401 zip let me know...

Quitter. This truck could be bad ass. Fiberglass bed on it (JDM Package lip) and it will be rock solid, rust-proof and light weight. Will get 30ish mpg and run forever.

It's a shame, because I have the opposite of everything you'll need to make this go. I have the head and accessories, but I blew out my conrods in my block.

 

[hosmer]

ps: we got a 92 y0t'r in today


179k.......

 

[NissanNiNjA2nd]

steve if you had as much knowledge in money as you do in cars.... the world would have caved into itself by now.



btw... I firmly believe that the greatest motors that toyota has ever produced is the 22r and 20r.... beat the piss out of 3 of them for more than 100k NEVER had a single problem


I live them, and if the chance ever comes back I will surely get another older celica or perhaps an old yota truck and get it rockin again.


mmmm 22r block 20r head.... little bit of extra goodies.... FUN times from the 60s back again.

 

[Celerity]

the 2xR motors are wierd.. they weren't what you would expect from Japan. They were torquey, low RPM motors. They were also half of a Ford 289 from the beginning. Interesting car fact: the 20R is a direct copy of an MG motor. You can almost see the MG markings on the casts that they made. This is why Offenhauser manifolds fit.

They are engines that are indestructible, and they are found in Gas in the US, and Diesel in most of the rest of the world. In Japan they were largely replaced with the 18RG twin cam motor, which was pretty hot in it's own right too. The Celica was supposed to have that in 1977, but the US emissions laws killed it. So they put the truck motors in them to satisfy US importing laws.

Toyota makes some of the uncontested best 4 cylinders of all time, and what I believe to be the best i-6 ever made: The 5MGE. The 3SGE, 4AGE and it's variants are potent, flexible and durable. (Interesting note about the 4AGE, if you're following the MR2 thread, is that the main design requirement for the 4AGE during development was the ability to rev from idle to redline in one second. And it does. It's got a very low rotating mass). The 3SGE in Japan was a major breathing engine when compared to the US models. JDM 3SGEs found in the NA MR2s (Which Battlepope recently corrected me on) are seriously high hp for what they are.

The 22R is on par with the H22 in overall dimensions, but it gets it's power at 1000 rpm, and redlines at 5600 rpm. Yeah, 5600. The 3SGE is comparable to the B18B only it's also got torque, and the 4AGE is comparable to the B16 series almost dead on.

If I add "SR20DE" and "Alpine Gordini" , than this single post will have listed every one of my favorite 4 cylinders in history.

Also, 2xR motors have HUGE valves.

 

[StealthMode]

Quoted post[/post]]
The 22R is on par with the H22 in overall dimensions, but it gets it's power at 1000 rpm, and redlines at 5600 rpm. Yeah, 5600. The 3SGE is comparable to the B18B only it's also got torque, and the 4AGE is comparable to the B16 series almost dead on.

I think my truck would blow up if I revved it that high. I think I'll stick to shifting at 3500 or below.

 

[NissanNiNjA2nd]

Quoted post[/post]]
the 2xR motors are wierd.. they weren't what you would expect from Japan. They were torquey, low RPM motors. They were also half of a Ford 289 from the beginning. Interesting car fact: the 20R is a direct copy of an MG motor. You can almost see the MG markings on the casts that they made. This is why Offenhauser manifolds fit.

They are engines that are indestructible, and they are found in Gas in the US, and Diesel in most of the rest of the world. In Japan they were largely replaced with the 18RG twin cam motor, which was pretty hot in it's own right too. The Celica was supposed to have that in 1977, but the US emissions laws killed it. So they put the truck motors in them to satisfy US importing laws.

Toyota makes some of the uncontested best 4 cylinders of all time, and what I believe to be the best i-6 ever made: The 5MGE. The 3SGE, 4AGE and it's variants are potent, flexible and durable. (Interesting note about the 4AGE, if you're following the MR2 thread, is that the main design requirement for the 4AGE during development was the ability to rev from idle to redline in one second. And it does. It's got a very low rotating mass). The 3SGE in Japan was a major breathing engine when compared to the US models. JDM 3SGEs found in the NA MR2s (Which Battlepope recently corrected me on) are seriously high hp for what they are.

The 22R is on par with the H22 in overall dimensions, but it gets it's power at 1000 rpm, and redlines at 5600 rpm. Yeah, 5600. The 3SGE is comparable to the B18B only it's also got torque, and the 4AGE is comparable to the B16 series almost dead on.

If I add "SR20DE" and "Alpine Gordini" , than this single post will have listed every one of my favorite 4 cylinders in history.

Also, 2xR motors have HUGE valves.

Your freaking knowledge of cars just flat out scares me.

 

[Celerity]

I've been wrong before. I've just been working with the 2xR every year except 06 since I was 14 and had my first car (a 1979 Celica GT). From there it's been one after the other, building and modding - learning from the OCC (Of whom I've been a member for 9 years.) So that's what now... 16 years with these engines ?

I can't tell you bore and strokes like some of these guys can, but I can give an overall. Thanks for the compliment.

All of these engines, from a 1920s Delahaye to the 05 VGs are the same thing. The only thing that excited me were the Wankels. But they are only a handful of parts, and very easy to learn. Newer engines seem daunting, but they are mostly emissions and support gear for the same thing going on in the block.

 

[reckedracing]

I suppose by "anyone" you are talking to me.

lol, damn you;re good

Quitter. This truck could be bad ass. Fiberglass bed on it (JDM Package lip) and it will be rock solid, rust-proof and light weight. Will get 30ish mpg and run forever.

does "anyone" know how much a fiberglass bed is off hand?
and what about their frames? do they rot like the bodies?

ps: we got a 92 y0t'r in today


179k.......

so whatcha doing with it?


thanks for all the info steve

 

[Celerity]

High quality 12 ply beds with functional gates are about $1200. Yeah, quite a bit. But no rust, and they are functional as the light duty beds that they replace.

And significantly lighter, which is the real point. Slap a bed cover on it, and you can get classic and sublime good looks and more power to the wheels.

Frames can rot. Easy - go to a shop and put it up on a lift. If it bends - be done with it.

 

[Battle Pope]

LOL

I've corrected Steve on a couple things-

Namely the USDM 2nd gen MR2 engine availability, and the fact that the 5-speed in the MA70 Turbo is radically different from the 5-speed in an MA70 N/A.

 

[Celerity]

Shame too. Because Toyota shot themselves in the damned foot with those decisions. The 3SGE is such a strong engine, the 5SFE is ok, but it's not the groundbreaker the 3SGE is. the 3SGTE is still used in Toyota's racing programs.

And the W58 transmission is japan's firmest entry into the "strongest and best" transmissions in the world. Infallible, they really are. People adapt them instead of Ford T5s and Volvo transmissions.

 

[Battle Pope]

R154 > W58. We've been over this.

And yes, the USDM SW20 should have been available with the 3SGE and 3SGTE only.

 

[hosmer]

Sorry, my computer says the 22R and 22REC interchange as long blocks...


"A&B interchange as long blocks by removing the fuel pump block off plate on the fuel injected heads and replacing it with a fuel pump. CAUTION: Switching the exhast manifolds between 88 & 89-95 may be a problem. Between the center exhaust ports are untapped mounting bosses in 88. Drill & tap for manifold to fit."

 

[reckedracing]

lmao...

god damn it

i've got toyota guys telling me they have done it and it works...

then i have people telling me no way in hell, they have tried it, it will never work

fuck it, its not even my truck...
and if it were my truck i would try and make it work...

 

[Celerity]

Quoted post[/post]]
Sorry, my computer says the 22R and 22REC interchange as long blocks...


"A&B interchange as long blocks by removing the fuel pump block off plate on the fuel injected heads and replacing it with a fuel pump. CAUTION: Switching the exhast manifolds between 88 & 89-95 may be a problem. Between the center exhaust ports are untapped mounting bosses in 88. Drill & tap for manifold to fit."

I've got studs in mine for the center ports. Without them, I couldn't imagine it holding a seal (My exhaust gasket leaks all the time)

As a long block, they do interchange. Move the knock boss, add the timing cover from the specific one and it's good. If you're talking about a single piece of cast aluminum as a long block, then yes. To take a 22R out of a car and put it under a 22RE head won't happen until you swap over the pistons, (Well.. you don't NEED them but without the compression is lazy) and the timing cover plate / timing elements. Then the FI has got several mystery items (Like the Enigma Box below the throttle body, the Mystery vacuum switch, and the How-the-hell-does-that work Cold Start injector sensor. )

If it was my truck, (Glad its not - too new) I would give the V8 swap a look, or talk to Tom from the OCC and get a new block to my doorstep (He lives in SC) or pick it up from his doorstep for cheap. Give him your head and he may even have a complete motor for you to plug wires into , mount the manifolds and go.

 

[reckedracing]

To take a 22R out of a car and put it under a 22RE head won't happen until you swap over the pistons, (Well.. you don't NEED them but without the compression is lazy) and the timing cover plate / timing elements. Then the FI has got several mystery items (Like the Enigma Box below the throttle body, the Mystery vacuum switch, and the How-the-hell-does-that work Cold Start injector sensor. )

i don;t wanna swap heads...

i want to remove the 22r, remove the 22re, put all NON long block things from the 22re onto the 22r and be on my way...

long block would be valve cover down to oil pan...

not just the pistons down...