question on a B16a2 built to have 200hp

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YangpaNemsay

Senior Member
I was on a teg forum, and I was asking a question about upgrading axles to accomodate a built B16 I plan to make in the future. I was told that an NA b16a2 built to ~200hp would have a rought time idle'ing. Is this true? This is exactly what the guy said:

"to have a 200hp, natually aspirated B16A, you won't have much of an idle."
 
:shrug2:

You could always have a really crazy cam setup on the VTEC lobes and really high compression pistons with headwork that still allows you to idle... if you're just playing with the cam profiles, you can always idle while making power up top.
 
you won't have a b16 anymore but if you throw in a stroker kit (toda sells one that strokes the motor to 87.2mm). Then slap on a set of s2 stage 2 cams, CAI, header/full exhaust and you should have 200+ flywheel hp easily.

of course it all comes down to if the thing gets tuned or not.
 
I would resleeve/bore it out to 1.8L before I blew all the cash on Toda's stroker kit.
 
By the way, if you look at some of the dyno charts on http://www.importreview.com you'll see that the B16 at 189whp doesn't really have any serious mods to it. Take the same engine, up the compression, then drop in hotter cams and tune it, and you have your 200whp with a decent idle.

http://www.importreview.com/d_1.6.html

steve.jpg
 
Originally posted by Calesta@Nov 5 2004, 05:31 AM
I would resleeve/bore it out to 1.8L before I blew all the cash on Toda's stroker kit.
[post=412448]Quoted post[/post]​


lol it was just an example suggestion. :p

I think whilest edelbrock is taking their sweet ass time on the b16a2 kit I'm going to play around with the motor and see what I can get all motor.
 
omniman made over 200whp with just headwork and tuning(14 year old b16); portflow head work, rocket m22 cams, apexi vafc i think, etc. it was also a daily driven street car.
 
I plan on making between 190-200 wheel hp off the bottle when my motor is done...

B16a2 -

SRP 10.5:1 forged pistons 81.5mm
Stock B16 rods and crank
Crane stage 2 cams
Crane v/s and ti retainers
ARP everything
port & polish
valve job
possible milled head
AEBS intake manifold
JG header
custom 2.5 inch exhaust, no cat
310 accell injectors
OBD1 conversion
VAFC for now, AEM EMS later

That should easily put down around 200 wheel horsepower and then I'm putting the Zex direct port system in... See ya in the 12s!
 
By the way, if you look at some of the dyno charts on http://www.importreview.com you'll see that the B16 at 189whp doesn't really have any serious mods to it.


Wow. Looks like a handful of JDM and CTR pieces. I'm not familiar with working with JDM pieces, do they really help out that much with the engine's performance?!?!

With exception of the japanese pieces, he also listed cam gears. What kind of cam gears would be used in an application like that??? Would AEM do any justice here?

Looks like CTR camshafts would be an alternative to dishing out tons of cash a person would not have for stage 2/3 cams yeah?
 
Originally posted by YangpaNemsay@Nov 5 2004, 12:20 PM
By the way, if you look at some of the dyno charts on http://www.importreview.com you'll see that the B16 at 189whp doesn't really have any serious mods to it.


Wow. Looks like a handful of JDM and CTR pieces. I'm not familiar with working with JDM pieces, do they really help out that much with the engine's performance?!?!

With exception of the japanese pieces, he also listed cam gears. What kind of cam gears would be used in an application like that??? Would AEM do any justice here?

Looks like CTR camshafts would be an alternative to dishing out tons of cash a person would not have for stage 2/3 cams yeah?
[post=412649]Quoted post[/post]​


Cam gears are cam gears as long as they are adjustable pretty much anything will work for you. I got the Venom cam gears just because they look sick as hell.
I could have gotten away with a cheaper set but hey you only live once.
 
Originally posted by pissedoffsol@Nov 5 2004, 04:30 PM
skunk stages 2's are pretty much the same thing as ctr's.... SLIGHTLY more agressive at best.
[post=412738]Quoted post[/post]​


That's the skunk2 stage 1s you're talking about brian...
 
go for buddy club spec III+'s, they make more power then the skunk2 and ctr's and cost around $680 with dual valve springs included(omnipowerusa); or $500 from kteller(no springs included). theres a dyno chart i think, somewhere on honda-tech, that shows skunk2s2 vs. BCIII+.

ctr vs. bcIII+
Products_Camshafts_Large_3.jpg
 
Originally posted by YangpaNemsay@Nov 5 2004, 02:20 PM
Wow. Looks like a handful of JDM and CTR pieces. I'm not familiar with working with JDM pieces, do they really help out that much with the engine's performance?!?!

With exception of the japanese pieces, he also listed cam gears. What kind of cam gears would be used in an application like that??? Would AEM do any justice here?

Looks like CTR camshafts would be an alternative to dishing out tons of cash a person would not have for stage 2/3 cams yeah?
[post=412649]Quoted post[/post]​


The JDM pistons are just generally slightly more aggressive on compression, that's all. The cams aren't half bad either. With cam gears, you can tune out some of your overlap and actually get more compression from less blow-by between the intake and exhaust stroke. Sometimes that helps power quite a bit. Lower compression can also mean more advance on ignition timing, and that can actually boost power a LOT. It's all in the tuning.
 
True that it is all in the tuning. But you can tune the fuck out of a B16 with stock internals and cams and never hit 200 wheel hp. Or even get close.

In my opinion the only way you will hit 200 wheel hp on a B16 -

Compression of at least 11:1
Bigger cams than CTRs
valvetrain
itbs
tuning

I have seen many dyno plots of semi built B16s that don't get anywhere near 200 hp. It takes quite a bit...
 
Originally posted by revolution8k@Nov 5 2004, 01:36 AM
you won't have a b16 anymore but if you throw in a stroker kit (toda sells one that strokes the motor to 87.2mm). Then slap on a set of s2 stage 2 cams, CAI, header/full exhaust and you should have 200+ flywheel hp easily.

of course it all comes down to if the thing gets tuned or not.
[post=412425]Quoted post[/post]​

Crower has a stroker kit.. turns your b16 into a 2.0L. and its cheaper than the toda... I believe http://www.crower.com/cat/import/honda/stroker.shtml
 
Originally posted by 99SiRidinLow+Nov 8 2004, 12:37 PM-->
revolution8k
@Nov 5 2004, 01:36 AM
you won't have a b16 anymore but if you throw in a stroker kit (toda sells one that strokes the motor to 87.2mm). Then slap on a set of s2 stage 2 cams, CAI, header/full exhaust and you should have 200+ flywheel hp easily.

of course it all comes down to if the thing gets tuned or not.
[post=412425]Quoted post[/post]​

Crower has a stroker kit.. turns your b16 into a 2.0L. and its cheaper than the toda... I believe http://www.crower.com/cat/import/honda/stroker.shtml
[post=413750]Quoted post[/post]​


thats with a larger bore. the stroker kits are pretty much like putting a b18 crank in b16.
 
Originally posted by 99SiRidinLow+Nov 8 2004, 12:37 PM-->
revolution8k
@Nov 5 2004, 01:36 AM
you won't have a b16 anymore but if you throw in a stroker kit (toda sells one that strokes the motor to 87.2mm). Then slap on a set of s2 stage 2 cams, CAI, header/full exhaust and you should have 200+ flywheel hp easily.

of course it all comes down to if the thing gets tuned or not.
[post=412425]Quoted post[/post]​

Crower has a stroker kit.. turns your b16 into a 2.0L. and its cheaper than the toda... I believe http://www.crower.com/cat/import/honda/stroker.shtml
[post=413750]Quoted post[/post]​


Yeah, that's 100 bucks cheaper but the Toda kit only gives you 1797 cc's, that first stock bore Crower B16 kit gives you 1830 cc's.

Thanks for the link man... I'm gonna have to bookmark that one.
 
changing the stroke on a b-series is a horrible idea IMO. they come out of the box with some of the best geometry designs ever made.
 
Originally posted by Calesta@Nov 5 2004, 03:31 AM
I would resleeve/bore it out to 1.8L before I blew all the cash on Toda's stroker kit.
[post=412448]Quoted post[/post]​


That's my plan. Look at Rocket Motorsports Forums for the 200 herbs project b16a. They made 200whp without boring or stroking. If you wajnt more torque from the NA b16a, you are going to have to force-feed, stroke, or bore it. If you don't need the torque, 200whp is totally attainable. I believe they had a stock idle as well, or close to it.
 
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