reason #15468456 thw world hates america

[adnoh]

Originally posted by New2TheCarScene+Jul 18 2005, 11:08 AM-->

92b16vx

@Jul 18 2005, 11:00 AM

But the US's retaliation to this is to force democracy and Christianity on a un-willing and un-wanting nation?

For the record, we are not forcing christianity on anyone, especially the middle east. As a matter of fact, we can not even mail christian religous materials, such as the little weeklys that they hand out, to troops over there. The only people allowed to carry them there are Chaplins. There is no mixing of christianity with the goods and services we are handing out over in the middle east....just for the record.

[post=527959]Quoted post[/post]​

This is a view point that many people take on, even if its ill founded. I'm the last person to defend religion, being non religious myself, other then I do believe that people should respect one anothers beliefs and that its disrespectful to speak ill of religion whether you're religious or not.

Will that said, I think that many think that this is a Christian dominant movement to take over the world when in truth the number of christians in the United States is dwindling. People act as if the entire US government is composed of greedy christians that are going to force their religion on others when its simply not true. You're not penalized by the government for not practicing christianity or for practicing another religion for that matter, I know because I've never been discriminated against by the government for not practicing a religion. Have mindless other people said things? Yes, but the government cannot control that. Fact is the government isn't pushing religion on anyone, any more so than the largest group of votes, the majority, wants it to. If you're the minority and don't like the way that the majority if voting, well thats just too bad because thats how democracy works. Its no ones fault that the masses want one thing or another and you may not agree with it. Organize, rally, and gain support and then perhaps you can get your way. Otherwise you have nothing to complain about.

Also for the record, the nation isn't unwilling and unwanting. A small group of people that runs the nation is unwilling and unwanting. They don't want to lose their power. What do the people want? Well I don't think that most there are educated enough over there to know what the hell they want. They're used to being controlled from birth, most aren't free thinkers.

[post=527963]Quoted post[/post]​

man.................no offence, but you guys are DEEP into it.

You say that the USA is not forcing Christianity on it's non-christian opponents? Dude, look at your $1 bill.......look at your country's slogan...."In God we Trust" ring a bell????.... wether you are religious in nature or not, no matter your personal views, if you fight for the USA, you in fact, ARE forcing Christianity, and the Western Democratic way of life on those who oppose. It's a simple fact, period. This is not a war of the individual...you fight for a collective government, therefore you fight for a collective ideal, the collective US religion is Christianity, therefore you fight it's purpose wether you realize it or not. When your founders came to North America in the first place, they did the same thing to the natives, and look at them now, same shit today.

BUT, before I dig myself a HUGE hole here, and being one of the only Canadians on this board, I'm going to just stop. BIG touchy topic here, and I dont want to burn any bridges..... I respect you guys too much to get into a stupid fight where I'm grossly outnumbered.

 

[totalburnout]

Originally posted by adnoh@Jul 18 2005, 11:23 AM

man.................no offence, but you guys are DEEP into it.

You say that the USA is not forcing Christianity on it's non-christian opponents? Dude, look at your $1 bill.......look at your country's slogan...."In God we Trust" ring a bell????.... wether you are religious in nature or not, no matter your personal views, if you fight for the USA, you in fact, ARE forcing Christianity, and the Western Democratic way of life on those who oppose. It's a simple fact, period. This is not a war of the individual...you fight for a collective government, therefore you fight for a collective ideal, the collective US religion is Christianity, therefore you fight it's purpose wether you realize it or not. When your founders came to North America in the first place, they did the same thing to the natives, and look at them now, same shit today.

BUT, before I dig myself a HUGE hole here, and being one of the only Canadians on this bored, I'm going to just stop. BIG touchy topic here, and I dont want to burn any bridges..... I respect you guys too much to get into a stupid fight where I'm grossly outnumbered.

So then we're also fighting for the English language as well right? ...and the entire idea of America and everything thats include therein. So in essence we're fighting for everyone of us.

The argument you put forth limits people to always being the same as the past. Since our dollar bill has Christian heritage and because our forefathers were Christians, we're fighting solely for the idea of Christianity? Regardless of the fact that we have muslims, jews, christians, pagans, non-practicing people in our military? You don't think that they're fighting for the entire idea behind America? Cite one example where the United States has mentioned trying to "enlighten" the people we conquer with christianity. I'm sure President Bush has said the word "God" numerous times and he meant it in christian terms, but the word "God" also represents many other religions as well. Those are his personal beliefs and of course he's going to express his spirituality and he should because thats one of the great things of America.

However this war is about spreading democracy not christianity. You're a little off base in your thinkings in my opinion because I don't feel its rational to believe this is a "holy war". Its led by a Christian, but fought by many others and that just proves my point.

 

[xj0hnx]

Andoh, don't make me become an asshole. America is founded on FREEDOM OF RELIGION...and that means? You can choose to worship who and what you want, if you want to worship a cucumber, feel free. Learn a little something about American money before you go trashing it's "heritage". I guess the eye of the illuminate is a christian sysmbol too huh? novus ordo seclorum must be some christian voodoo huh? In god we trust? what god? Doesn't say christian.

Here's just a few quotes from the men responsible for America...I think you will find the christianity isn't on their minds, if it was, it was more contemptous than anything else.
"I believe in one God, Creator of the universe.... That the most acceptable service we can render Him is doing good to His other children.... As to Jesus ... I have ... some doubts as to his divinity; though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the truth with less trouble." - Benjamin Franklin (Alice J. Hall, "Philosopher of Dissent: Benj. Franklin," National Geographic, Vol. 148, No. 1, July, 1975, p. 94.)

"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness, that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind." - Thomas Paine (The Age of Reason, 1794-1795.)

Every man "ought to be protected in worshipping the Deity according to the dictates of his own conscience." - George Washington (Letter to the United Baptist Churches in Virginia in May, 1789)

"Question with boldness even the existence of a god." - Thomas Jefferson (letter to Peter Carr, 10 August 1787)

"When a Religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its Professors are obliged to call for help of the Civil Power, it is a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one." - Benjamin Franklin (from a letter to Richard Price, October 9, 1780

I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of... Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."- Thomas Paine (The Age of Reason, 1794-1795.)

"Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error
all over the earth." - Thomas Jefferson (Notes on Virginia, 1782; from George Seldes, ed., The Great Quotations, Secaucus, New Jersey: Citadel Press, 1983, p. 363.)

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." - James Madison (Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments, 1785.)

"Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole carloads of other trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days?" - John Adams

"The civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, or on any pretence, infringed.'' - James Madison (Original wording of the First Amendment; Annals of Congress 434 (June 8, 1789).)

"As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." - (Treaty of Tripoli, 1797 - signed by President John Adams.)

Don't muddle together some half assed argument talking about trying to spread christianity to the rest of the world, and site money as a foundation of your argument. when you don't know what you're talking about. The founding fathers were modtly deist: "One who believes in the existence of a God or supreme being but denies revealed religion, basing his belief on the light of nature and reason."

I am an agnostic, though I lean more towards atheism.

 

[SiLude]

holy long ass post batman

I am an agnostic, though I lean more towards atheism.

:fosho2: :fosho3:

 

[Taco15]

repost. I couldnt even finish wacthing the trailer. that bitch is one of the big reasons people hate the US. She thinks the US is the best country in the freaking universe! by the way did you guys notice she gave no facts? all opinions of why america is better and how ''we '' allow canada to exist? damn she's a fuckin ignarant skank and i think someone should get fired for letting her on that show/news.

I'm MEXICAN and proud of it. And i'd ratther live in the us anyday. Even though i am illegal and the US is not helping me become a citizen, I still think of all the good things its done for me. Like education,place to live,great food,health care(under 18) and me just being able to live here with a job. so to the U.S. i thank you.

 

[adnoh]

Originally posted by 92b16vx@Jul 18 2005, 12:02 PM
Andoh, don't make me become an asshole. America is founded on FREEDOM OF RELIGION...and that means? You can choose to worship who and what you want, if you want to worship a cucumber, feel free. Learn a little something about American money before you go trashing it's "heritage". I guess the eye of the illuminate is a christian sysmbol too huh? novus ordo seclorum must be some christian voodoo huh? In god we trust? what god? Doesn't say christian.

Here's just a few quotes from the men responsible for America...I think you will find the christianity isn't on their minds, if it was, it was more contemptous than anything else.
"I believe in one God, Creator of the universe.... That the most acceptable service we can render Him is doing good to His other children.... As to Jesus ... I have ... some doubts as to his divinity; though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the truth with less trouble." - Benjamin Franklin (Alice J. Hall, "Philosopher of Dissent: Benj. Franklin," National Geographic, Vol. 148, No. 1, July, 1975, p. 94.)

"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness, that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind." - Thomas Paine (The Age of Reason, 1794-1795.)

Every man "ought to be protected in worshipping the Deity according to the dictates of his own conscience." - George Washington (Letter to the United Baptist Churches in Virginia in May, 1789)

"Question with boldness even the existence of a god." - Thomas Jefferson (letter to Peter Carr, 10 August 1787)

"When a Religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its Professors are obliged to call for help of the Civil Power, it is a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one." - Benjamin Franklin (from a letter to Richard Price, October 9, 1780

I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of... Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."- Thomas Paine (The Age of Reason, 1794-1795.)

"Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error
all over the earth." - Thomas Jefferson (Notes on Virginia, 1782; from George Seldes, ed., The Great Quotations, Secaucus, New Jersey: Citadel Press, 1983, p. 363.)

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." - James Madison (Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments, 1785.)

"Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole carloads of other trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days?" - John Adams

"The civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, or on any pretence, infringed.'' - James Madison (Original wording of the First Amendment; Annals of Congress 434 (June 8, 1789).)

"As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." - (Treaty of Tripoli, 1797 - signed by President John Adams.)

Don't muddle together some half assed argument talking about trying to spread christianity to the rest of the world, and site money as a foundation of your argument. when you don't know what you're talking about. The founding fathers were modtly deist:  "One who believes in the existence of a God or supreme being but denies revealed religion, basing his belief on the light of nature and reason."

I am an agnostic, though I lean more towards atheism.

[post=527985]Quoted post[/post]​

Well, not to be an asshole but......you've just sited a bunch of quotes copiled by a bunch of AMERICAN POLITITIANS.

The fact of the matter is this, religion aside,

..........for many years, and in many ways, the United States has worked with and helped terrorists in numerous countries. Washington has taught them how to bomb, how to torture, how to assassinate, even provided them with terrorism manuals.
One commonly accepted definition of terrorism is: Violence directed against civilians in order to intimidate or coerce a government or its citizens in furtherance of a political objective. The 40,000 American bombing sorties of the Gulf War and those since have claimed the lives of many thousands of Iraqi civilians in an
attempt to influence the government of Saddam Hussein or induce his overthrow. Likewise the American bombings of civilians in Panama, Libya and Grenada in the 1980s directed against those governments.

Imagine that the cold war is still going on, and the Soviet Union, citing some very minor pretext, filled the skies with bombers over, say, Greece, bombing the civilian population, killing hundreds or thousands, making thousands more homeless ... without having been first attacked by Greece, or threatened in any way by Greece. If this, at the time, had been called an act of terrorism, who would have objected? Well, the scenario I just described is exactly what the United States did to Panama in 1989 .
The difference between an individual terrorist and a government in some cases may be simply that the former has a bomb but doesn't have an air force. And many more examples of acts of terrorism by the U.S. government can be cited, even the more classic kind -- in 1985, in an attempt to assassinate a certain Muslim leader in Lebanon, the CIA arranged for a car bomb to go off. The bomb went off, and killed 80 people, but not including the Muslim leader.


Finally, there's human rights, one of the most repeated official slogans of recent years. But it's repeatedly ignored when it stands in the way of other goals or needs more important to Washington. When former U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright was asked if it wasn't hypocritical to punish Burma for human rights violations while refraining from sanctions against China for similar actions, she replied, "We have consistent principles and flexible tactics."
When it comes to human rights, we must consider that it would be difficult to name a brutal right-wing dictatorship or a gross violator of human rights of the second half of the twentieth century that was not supported by the United States. And this includes, believe it or not, the notorious Pol Pot of Cambodia. Many of these dictators were not merely supported by the United States, they were put into power and kept in power against the wishes of the populace.
For those of you who may be having difficulty swallowing what I've said so far, please consider the case of Gulf War Syndrome. Many thousands of American soldiers came home from the Gulf War with unusual, debilitating ailments, but the Pentagon denied that they had been exposed to chemical weapons. Years went by while the GIs suffered terribly, and the Pentagon, inch by inch, was forced to move away from its denial until finally it had to admit that, yes, chemical weapons depots had been bombed, and there were probably releases of the deadly poisons. This took a few years. The Pentagon brass also did not warn American servicemen of the dangers of the depleted uranium weapons they were using. The people of Iraq have found that out themselves the hard way with what is claimed to be an epidemic of cancers. If the Pentagon had admitted right away what it knew all along, the soldiers might have had a proper diagnosis early on and received appropriate care sooner. The cost in terms of human suffering was incalculable.

The moral of this story is that if the U.S. government does not care about the health and welfare of its own soldiers, how can it be argued, or believed, that it cares about foreign peoples, or religions? Free elections, drug trafficking, terrorism, human rights, people's lives ... and I could just as easily throw
in the other platitudes that American leaders know will elicit Pavlovian reactions from the public -- respect for international law, peace, freedom, justice, democracy ... But I'm not making any of this up, it's all been well documented.

So what is it I'm saying here -- that the U.S. government does not care at all about any of these nice things?No, I'm saying that these nice things are not principles of American foreign policy, not ideals or goals of policy in and of themselves. All else being equal, Washington policymakers, I'm sure, would love to take the high moral ground on all those issues. But all else is not equal. All else is almost never equal.

let me know if you'd like a works cited list. And please don't back me into a corner when I've stated a truce. As I said, I'm grossly outnumbered on this board and really dont want to offend anyone I respect.

 

[Battle Pope]

If you're trying to argue against New2, it doesn't matter, you WILL be backed into a corner, because he's an asshole who can't possibly accept that there might be another opinion and will beat your brow till you agree with him and still do it afterward.

 

[dveit]

It's inevitable.

 

[TurboMirage]

we need a subforum just for political issues, religious issues, and drama.

 

[Celerity]

Dance my pretties, DANCE

I'm, once again, in agreement with New2. The world and it's principals are setup as, and regarded as, By Status.

At one point, the world-wide status has shifting from country to another. It won't stop with the US, Next I believe the country in control will be Iceland. Before us, Britain -Before them, France. Greece, Iraq (Persia), Turkey (Ottoman Empire) the secret and indestructible Far East, the "Cradle of Life" Africa - All these countries and more have been at the top of their game at one point or another.

The US is currently in that status, But won't be forever. We could be looking at 10 years before it's done, or 10,000 years before it's done.

-> Steve

 

[xj0hnx]

Well, not to be an asshole but......you've just sited a bunch of quotes copiled by a bunch of AMERICAN POLITITIANS.

That was the point, I guess it went over your head. By the way, thy are not just American poloticians, they are the founding fathers of this country, and a big part of the reason behind the way American money is made, adn it was to help you understand that your statement about the US spreading christianity, by saying "look at your money" was ignorant.

....for many years, and in many ways, the United States has worked with and helped terrorists in numerous countries. Washington has taught them how to bomb, how to torture, how to assassinate, even provided them with terrorism manuals.

Or we could say, for many years, and in many ways the US has worked with and help train doctors, lawyers, chemist, botonist, engineers, in numerous countries. Washington has, through government grants, and schooling, taught them how to help, nurture, build, administor lifesaving practices, even provided them with monetary, hands on training, as well as written documentation on said teachings, and given them the acreditation to teach others these lifesaving, life improving pratices.

Am I going to deny that we trained foreign fighters? Hell no, I have helped train them. When we were training them, was it to be terrorist, um no. At the time the political climate said they were the closest thing to allies we had in XXX conflict. Now was it wrong to leave them full of empty promises, and their ass hanging in the wind? Yes. Do I blame them for their hatred? No, does it still piss me off, and want to kill them, sure.

The difference between an individual terrorist and a government in some cases may be simply that the former has a bomb but doesn't have an air force. And many more examples of acts of terrorism by the U.S. government can be cited, even the more classic kind -- in 1985, in an attempt to assassinate a certain Muslim leader in Lebanon, the CIA arranged for a car bomb to go off. The bomb went off, and killed 80 people, but not including the Muslim leader.

Actaully, ideology would be a bigger difference in the to, and would be a clearer line to define such actions. And wow, the CIA was egaged in clandestine black bag and wet work operations in the 80's? WHOA. Now that you sited the event, would you care to get into detail as to why we tried to kill sucxh and such leader, and the political climate at the time? If not, than don't mention it, it only brings the halfassed more to light. Siting part of an incident without the full details doesn't help make you point.

Human rights, ahh my favorite subject...not. Why? Because honestly, I don't care. Call my cold calased and unfeeling, but honestly I don't give two shits about someone suffereing in the congo, you know why? Because there's a hundreds of thousands of children suffering right here at home, and I think the BILLIONS, yes BILLIONS of foreign aid money that we have pissed away to impress the world community and to divert eyes from the aforementioned clandestined blackbag operations, should have been spent at home. No, I don't care about suffereing in other countries, and I am not really going to until my own home and is fixed.

The moral of this story is that if the U.S. government does not care about the health and welfare of its own soldiers, how can it be argued, or believed, that it cares about foreign peoples, or religions?

See, the problem here is, complaint come from the individual, the US government, and the military are not an individual, so you tell me, how are you going to ensure that millions of people are completely happy all the time? Mostly what I see, are people that become disillusioned, not because they were mistreated, but because they suck at life. Am I saying that our government hasn't ever made a mistake, or put soldiers health and welfare on the back burner? No, but by and large this just is not the case, and there's more cases of successful, healthy, happy, military carreers than there are the unfortunate blemishs that we all share.

 

[Celerity]

There was a day when I was alone in my logic The times, they are-a-changin.

Anne Coulter has also been brave enough (Or brazen enough, depending on which side of the table you are) to say, flat out, that it's Muslims against the world. And that to not target Muslims was to not target the correct enemy. Islam is a religion that supports and demands the destruction ofnon-muslims and by the words of the Ayatollahs, To destroy Western civilization.

Were there ever a religious war here, which I don't doubt, We didn't start it.

yes yes yes.. I know that there are moderate and peace loving Muslims

WHERE ARE THEY ?

They don't decry the terrorist acts of extreme Islam. They don't protest train bombings and hijackings. They just stay at home and only take to the streets to celebrate American casualties. That's where the moderate Muslims are. I know a few, they are no different.

Sure, they exist - But they aren't who they claim to be. They will be more than happy to protest the US forces putting underwear on the heads of Muslims (Abu Graib) and the idea ... the mere mention... that a Koran somewhere, sometime was threatened to be put in a toilet. They are on the front lines for that protest, but not a goddam one will stand up and protest terrorist-sponsored suicide bombings or other acts. I was VERY Surprised to see that in England, a Muslim group DID come out to condemn the train explosions - Which is goddam funny, because we have no evidence that it was Muslims that did it.

Or do they...


-> Steve

 

[xj0hnx]

Other than the first reports of the UK faction of the Taliban or whatever claiming responsibility. Haha, I haven't kept up with it, our news is either in German, or lame.

And Adnoh, the United States did not support Pol Pot, certain parts of the government did, but by and large congress tried to keep the funding the "administration" was sending (mixed up in forgein aid) out of their hands, and even levied specific instruction, NOT to let it find it's way into their hands. And most Americans, if they even know who Pol Pot and the Kmher Rouge were, were disgusted by them.

 

[xj0hnx]

Originally posted by Blanco@Jul 18 2005, 09:48 PM
I should just learn to keep my mouth. AMERICA AM TEH BESTEST IN TEH HOLE WERLD CUZ WE AINT DO NOH WRONG EVAR!!!eleven!!!!

I mean, it's obviously everyone else's problem that they don't like us. We're clearly better than the rest of the world. I really wish Americans would come up with a better argument than "they're just jealous".

[post=528088]Quoted post[/post]​

 

[dohcvtec_accord]

Originally posted by Celerity@Jul 18 2005, 12:36 PM
Anne Coulter has also been brave enough (Or brazen enough, depending on which side of the table you are) to say, flat out, that it's Muslims against the world. And that to not target Muslims was to not target the correct enemy. Islam is a religion that supports and demands the destruction ofnon-muslims and by the words of the Ayatollahs, To destroy Western civilization.

Were there ever a religious war here, which I don't doubt, We didn't start it.

yes yes yes.. I know that there are moderate and peace loving Muslims

WHERE ARE THEY ?

They don't decry the terrorist acts of extreme Islam. They don't protest train bombings and hijackings. They just stay at home and only take to the streets to celebrate American casualties. That's where the moderate Muslims are. I know a few, they are no different.

Sure, they exist - But they aren't who they claim to be. They will be more than happy to protest the US forces putting underwear on the heads of Muslims (Abu Graib) and the idea ... the mere mention... that a Koran somewhere, sometime was threatened to be put in a toilet. They are on the front lines for that protest, but not a goddam one will stand up and protest terrorist-sponsored suicide bombings or other acts. I was VERY Surprised to see that in England, a Muslim group DID come out to condemn the train explosions - Which is goddam funny, because we have no evidence that it was Muslims that did it.

Or do they...


-> Steve

[post=528055]Quoted post[/post]​

Come on, Steve. I usually agree with your politics, but even that is a little too far-fetched to me.

The Koran is no more antagonistic/violent than most of the other religious texts. Most of this stems from the fact that they were all written quite some time ago, when violence was an acceptable means of dealing with someone who didn't share your religious views. If you want to start analyzing, the Bible is just as, or more, pro-violence-in-the-name-of-the-lord as the Koran. A "moderate Muslim" is something akin to a "moderate Christian" - you're implying that most Muslims are aggressive warmongers who advocate killing in the name of their religion.

To answer your tongue-in-cheek question - where were the Christians when the KKK was in full swing? Where were/are the Catholics decrying the violence in the name of god in Ireland? Where is the outrage at the ham-fisted, mullet-sporting wife-beating Promise Keepers that are still prevelant today? I think you get my point. A couple of people speaking out against abhorrent violence isn't going to get nearly as much publicity in our stop-to-watch-the-car-wreck media reporting on a suicide bomber. Truth be told, I HAVE seen report on Muslim public figures speaking out against the violence. It's usually near the bottom of the list of stories on the AP Wire.

Ann Coulter is both brave and brazen, but all she's doing is spreading misinformation about a normally peaceful religion. She's stirring up hate in people like my mom, who professes that all Muslims should be rounded up, shot and killed.

 

[Battle Pope]

People just have one main inherent flaw:

It's far more popular to promote intolerance than advocate peace. It's much easier and takes much less effort to hate someone/something than to learn to understand and tolerate it. Much less work together with it and reach a peaceful end.

Before all the conservatives whip out their brow-beating sticks, let me say that I full well understand that not everyone is reasonable, or safe to tolerate, but the vast majority ARE reasonable and ARE safe (more or less) to tolerate. It's just easier to hate everyone than to make discriminations.

 

[hcivic.com]

Originally posted by Celerity@Jul 18 2005, 07:04 AM
for the record, Canada is a very active participant in the Nuclear Missile shield over North America - And Canada had a very large part to do with the formation of NORAD.


Canada has a fantastic Navy.

Canada's air superiority program is something that legends are made of. Canada could very well be on top of their game in defense and military if the conservative Canadian parliament didn't scratch their jet programs (Remember, kids - Conservative Canadian government and Conservative US Government are totally different)

-> Steve

[post=527912]Quoted post[/post]​

well sort of true we have some of the best trained personal in the world and we would have one of the best forces if it werent for the liberal govt cutting funding so damn much. The conservatines scraped our fastjet development under pressure from the us and others.

 

[adnoh]

Well, it's pretty obvious that me arguing with you guys, who are Americans, is not going to do any good, so I'm backing off this topic entirely. There is just too much to say. No sence in arguing anymore.

:whiteflag:

 

[Sabz5150]

Originally posted by Celerity@Jul 18 2005, 08:11 AM
I love Anne Coulter.

[post=527896]Quoted post[/post]​

That neocon right wing bitch needs to burn in hell. I'll kick her ovaries in if I get near her.

 

[Sabz5150]

Originally posted by Celerity@Jul 18 2005, 02:36 PM
There was a day when I was alone in my logic The times, they are-a-changin.

[post=528055]Quoted post[/post]​

Yeah, all the roaches come out when you leave the lights off long enough.

Eventually people call an exterminator.

These times will be a changin back. We don't like those people.