Return of the Camaro

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Yeah. I read something somewhere that compared Toyota to GM, specifically the trucks.

GM has to keep their costs down, while raising prices, because each vehicle they sell has thousands in overhead for employees.

Toyota (and I therefore assume most import companies) has overhead per vehicle in the HUNDREDS of dollars. On a competitively priced vehicle, more money goes into the actual construction of the vehicle because their overhead is so much lower than GM (or Ford or Chrysler).
 
im sorry but a domestic truck will out last any import in the real work world. When toyotas start to comes with disel that have power and can compete then tell me there a better truck. As for option a domestic high end kicks the ass out of any import. I believe in helping my own econ, thats why i just bought the little sister a new cobalt, not the civic she wanted. I am truck shopping right now and am tied between a dodge commins or the ford power stroke. The only part I can get over is the inital price of the two.

and the c5 and c6 share almost no parts it was a complete redesing
c6

read this site if you want a good read on the ne dsng
 
hcivic.com @ Nov 16 2005 said:
Quoted post[/post]]
im sorry but a domestic truck will out last any import in the real work world. When toyotas start to comes with disel that have power and can compete then tell me there a better truck. As for option a domestic high end kicks the ass out of any import. I believe in helping my own econ, thats why i just bought the little sister a new cobalt, not the civic she wanted. I am truck shopping right now and am tied between a dodge commins or the ford power stroke. The only part I can get over is the inital price of the two.

and the c5 and c6 share almost no parts it was a complete redesing
c6

read this site if you want a good read on the ne dsng
Click to expand...

you should really look at the chevy/gmc with a duramax AND the allison transmission.
 
GM and Ford pay out a lot for the employees. that is true. however they still can't sell shit for cars.

GM is pretty much giving their cars away (near cost) and STILL can't move the fuckers.

The Toyota and Nissan trucks are also making a big splash in GM/Fords markets. even if some people think GM/Ford/Dodge make the best damn trucks in the world.

I thought about buying GM and Ford stocks but after researching them...... I wont touch them with a 10 foot pole. (edit) Ford MIGHT be worth something stock wise in a few months. I'm waiting to see how they turn things around for the 1Q 06.
 
hondarin @ Nov 16 2005 said:
Quoted post[/post]]
hcivic.com @ Nov 16 2005 said:
Quoted post[/post]]
im sorry but a domestic truck will out last any import in the real work world. When toyotas start to comes with disel that have power and can compete then tell me there a better truck. As for option a domestic high end kicks the ass out of any import. I believe in helping my own econ, thats why i just bought the little sister a new cobalt, not the civic she wanted. I am truck shopping right now and am tied between a dodge commins or the ford power stroke. The only part I can get over is the inital price of the two.

and the c5 and c6 share almost no parts it was a complete redesing
c6

read this site if you want a good read on the ne dsng
Click to expand...

you should really look at the chevy/gmc with a duramax AND the allison transmission.
Click to expand...
i love chevy but their trucks are just to low for me, and I am going to be in some shitty sites
 
jeffie7 @ Nov 16 2005 said:
Quoted post[/post]]
GM and Ford pay out a lot for the employees. that is true. however they still can't sell shit for cars.

GM is pretty much giving their cars away (near cost) and STILL can't move the fuckers.

The Toyota and Nissan trucks are also making a big splash in GM/Fords markets. even if some people think GM/Ford/Dodge make the best damn trucks in the world.

I thought about buying GM and Ford stocks but after researching them...... I wont touch them with a 10 foot pole. (edit) Ford MIGHT be worth something stock wise in a few months. I'm waiting to see how they turn things around for the 1Q 06.
Click to expand...

It's kind of hard to build something with some luxury if you don't have any money in the bank for a decent amount of research and development.
 
NoJokE @ Nov 15 2005 said:
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Why bother? They used that 30 years to absolutely perfect the setup.

That 350 cubic inch pushrod V8 combined with the IRS and leafsprings is STILL kicking ass on the track.

and now that the new Z06 has a 7 liter engine, it'll continue to do so.
Click to expand...

"Why bother?" That's the exact reason that GM is folding right now. "Why bother to upgrade the interior?" "Why bother to bring in new technology if what we had 30 years ago worked?" Why bother isn't going to get any business very far... Just because something works doesn't mean that it can't be improved....

Leafsprings might be kicking ass, but redesigning to something more efficient could make even BETTER times.
Click to expand...

But this is why a Vette doesn't cost 100k..they don't need to spend the money in designing new technology....you all make fun of the use of leaf springs....

But the C6-r kicks the shit out of all those Exotic sport cars like ferrari's and aston martins. saleens and maserati's in their divsion of racing

Like people always say, the proof is on the track


2005 C6-r Race results
 
2000Si @ Nov 16 2005 said:
Quoted post[/post]]
jeffie7 @ Nov 16 2005 said:
Quoted post[/post]]
GM and Ford pay out a lot for the employees. that is true. however they still can't sell shit for cars.

GM is pretty much giving their cars away (near cost) and STILL can't move the fuckers.

The Toyota and Nissan trucks are also making a big splash in GM/Fords markets. even if some people think GM/Ford/Dodge make the best damn trucks in the world.

I thought about buying GM and Ford stocks but after researching them...... I wont touch them with a 10 foot pole. (edit) Ford MIGHT be worth something stock wise in a few months. I'm waiting to see how they turn things around for the 1Q 06.
Click to expand...

It's kind of hard to build something with some luxury if you don't have any money in the bank for a decent amount of research and development.
Click to expand...


Where'd you get luxury from? It has nothing to do with luxury Toyota has been selling trucks for years with nothing but 4 wheels a shitty ass 20 year old seat (different fabric over the years) streering wheel and some manual windows. and even their new trucks are still not luxury trucks unless you spend over 25K

Doesnt matter how good or bad GM cars/trucks are. Bottom line, they are not moving off the dealers lots. their sells have been down the last few months OVER 25%! sad thing is the # hasnt been getting smaller.

GM needs to do something and something fast.
 
Yeah, it's getting bad. Toyota and Nissan have been moving on the fullsize market with the Tundra and Titan. GM can't move their vehicles to recoup the costs of labor. And at their labor costs they've gotta be hurtin'.
 
It's not labor costs. It's the overall formula for auto industry.

The real expense in the american companies are all the retirements and union costs. The company has to continue to pay someone until they die.

Which contrasts other countries, which are mostly socialist, that instead kill every working person with a hefty tax burden to take care of it's elderly.

And the costs for cars are the real killer. In Germany, a car isn't just a machine like it is here. People there, while they do consider cost, it's a different culture of people that recognise that if they want a particular feature or high-end car, that a lot went into making that car, and the cost is justified. They don't go shopping around "for the cheapest new car with gobs of horsepower, luxury options, free warrantees, free free free etc". If you were pay what a car was worth, they would all cost a ton of money.

Consider that you pay value for a handgun / firearm. And those are machined and carefully crafted as well. If you were to put that into car terms, a car would cost $100,000 but it would run forever :) People have chosen instead for a car to cost very little, then just replace it.
 
It's not labor costs. It's the overall formula for auto industry.

The real expense in the american companies are all the retirements and union costs. The company has to continue to pay someone until they die.

Which contrasts other countries, which are mostly socialist, that instead kill every working person with a hefty tax burden to take care of it's elderly.

And the costs for cars are the real killer. In Germany, a car isn't just a machine like it is here. People there, while they do consider cost, it's a different culture of people that recognise that if they want a particular feature or high-end car, that a lot went into making that car, and the cost is justified. They don't go shopping around "for the cheapest new car with gobs of horsepower, luxury options, free warrantees, free free free etc". If you were pay what a car was worth, they would all cost a ton of money.

Consider that you pay value for a handgun / firearm. And those are machined and carefully crafted as well. If you were to put that into car terms, a car would cost $100,000 but it would run forever People have chosen instead for a car to cost very little, then just replace it.
Click to expand...
Its more than that with the union, union workers make on average double what every other person in america makes for the same line of work. $27 was the average. Most assembly line workers have no skilled trades, no college education, and make that kind of money. On top of that pay them great medical coverage, give them a paid job bank for one year if they get laid off, and almost a full pension.

Take care of that and maybe they can up thier quality of cars a little bit. Up the quality and eventually production costs will fall.
 
gm will pull out they have more people riding on their side that against
 
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